Yeah, name aside I can see them being pretty old-school, especially in a setting with more gonzo, scifi elements in its history like Wilderlands.

Quote from: LibraryLass;625359Yeah, name aside I can see them being pretty old-school, especially in a setting with more gonzo, scifi elements in its history like Wilderlands.

Yeah, well that's the thing: in a lot of cases its not a question of mechanics, but of presentation.

RPGPundit

Maybe slightly off topic, but I've found what's basically a feat system for 1E in Dragon #165. Someone took the special manuevers system in Oriental Adventures and made it generic i.e. non-oriental; it lets fighters (and if the DM permits, other fighter subclasses) burn weapon proficiencies to buy special abilities, which live in a 'tree' structure much like 3E's feats (for each type you had to learn each in order). Each also requires 1-4 weeks of training (cost as per level training, or more for higher up manuevers; all ability score boosting manuevers are noted as taking double training time).
 
The categories & abilities for each were:
Balance: Fall, Instant Stand, Prone Fighting, Dexterity
Grappling: Dodge, Evasion, Slam, Clinch
Movement: Feint, Parting Blow, Drive, Speed, Missile Deflection
Mental Training: All-around Sight, Mental Resistance, Blind Fighting, Intelligence
Defense: Parry, Weapon's Length, Shield, Riposte, Weapon Catch
Physical Training: Ironskin, Resist Unconsciousness, Perception, Health & Fitness, Strength
Strike: Pummel, Crushing Blow, Vital Area, Stun/Incapacitate
Weapon Skill: Entangle/Fast Draw, Stun, Weapon Breaker, Hit Location, Secondary Weapon
 
Space probably doesn't permit listing what all of these do of course, but I thought it was interesting.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;625765Maybe slightly off topic, but I've found what's basically a feat system for 1E in Dragon #165. Someone took the special manuevers system in Oriental Adventures and made it generic i.e. non-oriental; it lets fighters (and if the DM permits, other fighter subclasses) burn weapon proficiencies to buy special abilities, which live in a 'tree' structure much like 3E's feats (for each type you had to learn each in order). Each also requires 1-4 weeks of training (cost as per level training, or more for higher up manuevers; all ability score boosting manuevers are noted as taking double training time).
 
The categories & abilities for each were:
Balance: Fall, Instant Stand, Prone Fighting, Dexterity
Grappling: Dodge, Evasion, Slam, Clinch
Movement: Feint, Parting Blow, Drive, Speed, Missile Deflection
Mental Training: All-around Sight, Mental Resistance, Blind Fighting, Intelligence
Defense: Parry, Weapon's Length, Shield, Riposte, Weapon Catch
Physical Training: Ironskin, Resist Unconsciousness, Perception, Health & Fitness, Strength
Strike: Pummel, Crushing Blow, Vital Area, Stun/Incapacitate
Weapon Skill: Entangle/Fast Draw, Stun, Weapon Breaker, Hit Location, Secondary Weapon
 
Space probably doesn't permit listing what all of these do of course, but I thought it was interesting.

Maneuvering for Victory by Cory S. Krammer. Thanks for pointing it out.  It is designed to be used with AD&D 1 too, rather than AD&D 2, though he does provide some ideas for AD&D 2.   It is an interesting way to add some abilities that fighters may use to bring them on par with magic using characters in some campaigns.  Cory incorporates the training rules into his concept, which is a good touch.  I noticed that he provides advice on which monsters might know some of these, which brought to mind interesting masters that the character might need to seek out for certain maneuvers.  That the supplementary rules are restricted to fighter classes is a good way to go for these particular maneuvers.

There is an Osric supplement about by Malcolm Sheppard, First Edition Feats.  He provided a trade of weapon proficiency slots for feats, which Cory also required, with class and ability score perquisites for the feats.  So, Malcolm opened the scheme up to all classes. Both approaches have their benefits, but I like the depth Cory puts into his article.  I think the training rules would bring some over that would never normally consider such a thing in AD&D 1.

First Edition Feats by Malcolm Sheppard

Maneuvering for Victory sure is a late AD&D 1 article in Dragon, 1991.  It even has the subtitle 'Special maneuvers for AD&D 1st Edition game fighters', and the content is certainly geared toward AD&D 1.  I wonder if it was sitting on the shelf for 3 years waiting to be published.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;625765Maybe slightly off topic, but I've found what's basically a feat system for 1E in Dragon #165. Someone took the special manuevers system in Oriental Adventures and made it generic i.e. non-oriental; it lets fighters (and if the DM permits, other fighter subclasses) burn weapon proficiencies to buy special abilities, which live in a 'tree' structure much like 3E's feats (for each type you had to learn each in order). Each also requires 1-4 weeks of training (cost as per level training, or more for higher up manuevers; all ability score boosting manuevers are noted as taking double training time).

How interesting. Feats are the thing I hate most about modern D&D, but that's still an interesting find.

Fine effort all!

All we need now is for someone to incorporate some of these things in their old-school game and report on how it went!

Quote from: Kuroth;625809Maneuvering for Victory sure is a late AD&D 1 article in Dragon, 1991. It even has the subtitle 'Special maneuvers for AD&D 1st Edition game fighters', and the content is certainly geared toward AD&D 1. I wonder if it was sitting on the shelf for 3 years waiting to be published.

NP. Ah...I hadn't realized that it was a 1991 issue [2E era] when I read it, actually, since most of the content in that Dragon isn't specifically D&D. Hard to say. I think with Dragon they did sometimes hold onto articles for awhile so they could have a theme for the article - 165s being 'the sea' this one looks a bit off-topic but perhaps they needed the filler.
 

Quote from: LibraryLass;625890How interesting. Feats are the thing I hate most about modern D&D, but that's still an interesting find.

They definitely have a downside. Though perhaps the stuff here could perhaps be useful in the other conversion work here too? i.e. stuff like bonus Iron Will feat from a class  ---> Mental Resistance manuever [+2 bonus on mental attacks including charms, illusions and hold spells]. (shrug).

Worry not, I would be hesitant to include feats in AD&D 1 too. ha  I could almost hear the shutters from here of folks reading those ideas. ha  Really though, I might include them as leverage for players that simply would not play AD&D without some of the elements specific to 3/4 D&D.

One thing that Mallcolm mentions in his approach was that with the modest feats he wrote the DM should reduce the encounter chance of magic items even further.  It is a way to see the D&D scale from the most magic items (Orginal D&D) to the least (D&D 4).

Quote from: Kuroth;626174Worry not, I would be hesitant to include feats in AD&D 1 too. ha  I could almost hear the shutters from here of folks reading those ideas. ha  Really though, I might include them as leverage for players that simply would not play AD&D without some of the elements specific to 3/4 D&D.

One thing that Mallcolm mentions in his approach was that with the modest feats he wrote the DM should reduce the encounter chance of magic items even further.  It is a way to see the D&D scale from the most magic items (Orginal D&D) to the least (D&D 4).

I don't know that I'd call an edition where the math assumes the PCs will have access to magic items for their attacks, AC, and NAD at all times the system with the least magic items.
As to most... that's definitely 3e, the edition of magic item shops.

Quote from: LibraryLass;626178I don't know that I'd call an edition where the math assumes the PCs will have access to magic items for their attacks, AC, and NAD at all times the system with the least magic items.
As to most... that's definitely 3e, the edition of magic item shops.

Meh, Monty Hall campaigns have been around since forever, with magic stores in the Overlord’s city, etc.  What Mallcolm, though I understand he isn't the most popular guy about here, is alluding to is that magic items become less and less a feature of leveling from non-proficiencies to powers.  It has been to the point in my 4th edition campaign that players don’t really notice when they never get any magic items.  I only include one or two unique artifacts that don't have any combat use in a whole 4th edition campaign now.

Edit:Talking about how magic items scale in player perceived significance through the various D&D editions and variants makes me consider items that are quintessential edition items that could be converted.

1st Edition AD&D Conversion of Harrow Elf

"I don't wear this mask because I'm ashamed of myself.  I wear it because bigoted fools like you keep giving me shit over my heritage."

No Picture Available

*From Ptolus: City by the Spire

Classes: A Harrow Elf can be a Fighter (7th), Magic-User (9th), Illusionist (8th) Assassin (8th), Monk (Unlimited), or Thief (Unlimited).

Ability Score Bonuses and Minimums: A Harrow Elf has +1 Dexterity, -1 Constitution, and -1 Charisma.  They must have a minimum of 10 Dexterity, 8 Intelligence, 8 Wisdom, and 3 in all other ability scores.

Languages: Harrow Elves speak Common and Elven, and are capable of learning Dwarven, Elder Elven, Gnome, and Halfling.

Traits:

Infravision up to 30'.

Bad Reputation: Harrow Elves treat their Charisma score as 2 points lower when determining initial attitude adjustments  of others, and 4 points lower when dealing with other elves (including drow).

Innate Magic: Harrow Elves can cast Audible Glamour, Detect Magic, and Push once per day each with an effective Magic-User level equal to his total levels in classes.  He can cast these spells even while wearing armor.

Additionally, Harrow Elves can also cast another Magic-User spell, either 1st-level spell or 2nd-level, determined by the Dungeon Master.

Racial Modifications for a Harrow Elf Thief: +5% to Pick Pockets, +5 to Hide in Shadows, +10% to Move Silently.

Age: Harrow Elves age at the same rate as Elves.

1st Edition AD&D Conversion of Litorian

"It says much about the arrogance of your civilization, to associate technologically advanced societies with 'civilized people.'"



*From Ptolus: City by the Spire

Classes: Litorians can be Fighters (9th), Rangers (Unlimited), Druids (7th), or Thieves (Unlimited).

Ability Score Bonuses and Minimums: Litorians gain a +1 to Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution (roll 1d3, randomly determined).  Litorians must have a minimum of 9 in Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.

Languages: A Litorian speaks Common and his own language, Litorian.  He can learn Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc.

Traits:

Infravision up to 30 feet.

Scent: A Litorian can pinpoint the location of creatures up to 30 feet away by sense of smell.  The Litorian can pinpoin the square/hex grid they are in on a battlemat, but they still suffer penalties to hit if the enemy is invisible or behind cover.  A Litorian who has been around certain individual for a long enough time (period of days for continuous exposure, weeks for casual acquaintances) can identify their unique scent and recognize them by smell alone.

Naturally incorporeal creatures do not have a scent.

Racial Modifications for a Litorian Thief: +5% to Hear Noise, +5% to Find/Remove Traps, unmodified to everything else.

Age: Litorians mature much faster than humans (age 12 at young adulthood), but otherwise age at the same rate as humans.

Not technically a New School race, but Lizardfolk are a PC option in Ptolus (they call themselves the Asserai), so...

1st Edition AD&D Conversion of Lizardfolk

"We don't need your pity or your charity.  We've survived and thrived in far worse conditions than you'll ever know."



Classes: Lizardfolk can be Fighters (9th), Rangers (8th), Druids (Unlimited), Thieves (Unlimited), and Assassins (7th).

Ability Score Bonuses and Minimums: Lizardfolk gain +1 to Strength, but -1 to Intelligence.  Their Strength and Constitution scores must be at least 12 and 10, while their other ability scores must be at least 3.

Languages: Lizardfolk speak Common and their own language (Lizardfolk).  They can learn the languages of Dragons, Goblins, Gnolls, and Orcs.

Traits:

Natural Armor: Lizardfolk have thick hides, and are treated as wearing scale mail for the purposes of determining armor class, but not for the purposes of determining spell-casting and encumbrance.  If a Lizardfolk chooses to wear manufactured armor, he uses whichever value is higher for armor class bonuses instead of stacking protection.

Natural Weapons: A Lizardfolk has two claws and a bite attack.  They deal 1d4 points of damage to Medium and Large creatures alike.  If you're using Weapon Speed rules, treat them as daggers.

Hold Breath: A Lizardfolk is adept at underwater exploration, and can hold his breath four times as long as a human can before drowning.

Racial Modifications for a Lizardfolk Thief: +10% Climb Walls, +5% Hide in Shadows, unmodified for everything else.

Age: TBD.

1st Edition AD&D Version of Archivist



"You can either sell me the cursed stele, or you can wait for its original owner to come for it. The choice is yours."

-- Anselmo Durod, proctor abbot of the Hallowed Doctrine

*From 3rd Edition Heroes of Horror

Requirements: Intelligence 14+, Wisdom 10+.  An Archivist with 15+ in both scores gains a +10% bonus on all experience earned.

Hit Points: As Magic-User.
Combat: As Magic-User.
Saving Throws: As Cleric.
Experience Points: As Magic-User.
Weapon Proficiency: As Cleric, except can only wear Leather Armor and cannot use shields.

Special Abilities:

Spellcasting: Archivists copy and learn spells as a Magic-User, except he draws from the list of Cleric spells.  Archivists refer to their spellbooks as prayerbooks.

Dark Knowledge: Archivists have an expansive knowledge of monsters and other fell creatures, knowledge which can help his allies thwart, fight, and outsmart said creatures.

Three times per day, as part of a melee turn (or a segment out of combat, 6 seconds either way), an Archivist can roll a percentile roll pertaining to one monster within 60 feet of him.  The base success rate is 50%, plus 5% for every two Archivist levels beyond 1st level (to a maximum of 95% at 19th level).  If successful, the Archivist grants beneficial effects to his allies pertaining to that monster (or race of monsters) for 1 minute.  The Archivist can use Dark Knowledge multiple times to stack abilities.

Dark Knowledge Benefits:

Tactics: A successful check grants a +1 bonus on to-hit rolls against the affected creature.  The bonus increases to +2 at 5th level, +3 at 10th level.

Puissance: Starting at 5th level, an Archivist can grant a +1 bonus on all saving throws against the affected creature's attacks.  This bonus increases to +2 at 10th level, +3 at 15th level.

Foe: Starting at 8th level, an Archivist can grant an additional 1d6 points of damage on successful weapon attacks.  This increases to 2d6 at 13th level, 3d6 at 18th level.

Dread Secret: Starting at 11th level, an Archivist can utter the dread secret of a single creature and leave him in shock for 1 melee turn.  The creature suffers a -1 penalty on to-hit rolls and saving throws.  At 16th level, the Archivist can instead choose to make the monster be unable to take any offensive actions for one melee turn instead.

Foreknowledge: Starting at 14th level, the Archivist can grant his allies a +1 bonus to Armor Class against the target creature.  This bonus increases to +2 at 19th level, +3 at 24th level.

Well damn. I was gonna do Archivist. But I don't think I could beat that.