Honest question, how the hell do you apply the 'number appearing' in the MM entries?  I understand that they're generally only to be used as vague guidelines, but I'd like to know exactly how they're guiding me.

In OD&D, it implies they're used mainly for outdoor skirmishes.  In AD&D, it implies the same thing in the MM, and then offers alternate "number appearing" in the random monster table appendices, but I don't think it covers all of the MM entries.

In BD&D, it seems like the numbers are fairly toned down in comparison.

So is 30-400 goblins only for outdoor encounters?  Is it useful for all types of unplanned encounters?  Is this assuming a large party, and is there actually a set of guidelines that are more clear when it comes to stocking dungeon levels with wandering monsters?

From the AD&D MM, p.5:

QuoteNUMBER APPEARING indicates a good average spread. This number is furnished as a guideline only, and it should be altered to suit the circumstances particular to any adventure as the need arises. It is not generally recommended for use in establishing the population of dungeon levels.

I use them as an indication of the sizes of usual groups of such creatures sticking together in an average community/pack/group. It indicates the sizes of such usual groupings, villages, settlements, lairs, whatnot as a point of reference only.

Quote from: Benoist;431493I use them as an indication of the sizes of usual groups of such creatures sticking together in an average community/pack/group. It indicates the sizes of such usual groupings, villages, settlements, lairs, whatnot as a point of reference only.

So you could have a community of say, 140 goblins living in/around a dungeon, but unless the party goes near the settlement or alerts the entire goblin community to their presence, they might only encounter 1-2d6 or so in an individual encounter (goblin scavengers, warriors, etc.) based on how far they are from the heart of the community?

Quote from: Peregrin;431494So you could have a community of say, 140 goblins living in/around a dungeon, but unless the party goes near the settlement or alerts the entire goblin community to their presence, they might only encounter 1-2d6 in an individual encounter (goblin scavengers, warriors, etc.)?

You could do something like this, sure. But really you don't have to follow these guidelines. If you were putting say 20 goblins around the entrance of the dungeon, for instance, and you look at the entry in the MM and it tells you "Number Appearing: 40-400," this might suggest that there is a much larger goblin settlement down below, or maybe these are rogue goblins following some sort of strong leader, or maybe a little tribe that is the remnant of some inner fighting within... it's a tool to help you get inspired and try to make sense of your adventure. See what I mean?

Quote from: Benoist;431495You could do something like this, sure. But really you don't have to follow these guidelines. If you were putting say 20 goblins around the entrance of the dungeon, for instance, and you look at the entry in the MM and it tells you "Number Appearing: 40-400," this might suggest that there is a much larger goblin settlement down below, or maybe these are rogue goblins following some sort of strong leader, or maybe a little tribe that is the remnant of some inner fighting within... it's a tool to help you get inspired and try to make sense of your adventure. See what I mean?

Gotcha.  Thanks.  

Just trying to further my understanding of the game as much as I can. The weather has been kind of crappy around here, so I'm taking the time to start planning for some campaigns, and maybe get some practice mapping out some dungeons and whatnot.

All good. I love these sorts of questions. Helps me structure my thinking as well.

Generally speaking the number appearing represents the number of monsters you find in a lair or a natural encounter. A natural encounter meaning the creature in it's natural habitat.

It is designed to work with the random encounter charts.

For me, the big 'No. Appearing' entry was always useful for conceptualizing the size of the lair, tribe or monster community at its largest scope as Ben  is suggesting.  Furthermore, it's a handy device to keep you from handing out too much treasure.  I generate treasure hordes by lair/tribe letting certain little bastards roam around with the useful stuff as I see fit*

*Some version of the game/specific monsters have their own special entries for carried treasure, but I think you get what I'm saying.

I'm a bad DM sometimes; I make a dice roll in that range and populate dungeon levels accordingly.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;431512I'm a bad DM sometimes; I make a dice roll in that range and populate dungeon levels accordingly.

Holy shit! 400 goblins on level 1!

Quote from: Benoist;431513Holy shit! 400 goblins on level 1!

Room 1, level 1.

(I had some notes from Gary for Teeth of the Barkash Nour that had exactly that: a room with 400 goblins in it.)

Quote from: thedungeondelver;431514Room 1, level 1.

(I had some notes from Gary for Teeth of the Barkash Nour that had exactly that: a room with 400 goblins in it.)

LOL I was just telling myself it'd be cool to ACTUALLY do that and just let the game unfold from there.

Quote from: Benoist;431515LOL I was just telling myself it'd be cool to ACTUALLY do that and just let the game unfold from there.

I'm picturing the retouched Star Wars movie where Han runs in and oh shit 400 stormtroopers.

It's not like the stormtroopers would be able to hit anything with their blasters, mind you.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;431512I'm a bad DM sometimes; I make a dice roll in that range and populate dungeon levels accordingly.

Quote from: Benoist;431513Holy shit! 400 goblins on level 1!

The halfling goes first!