Now Wokists Want To Ban This D&D Word

Wrath of God · April 12, 2022, 07:20:45 PM

QuoteI've always like "narrator" because the DM narrates what happens in accordance with the mechanics and the players' stated actions.

That's bit limited because in like 99% of game there is way more input than merely narrating results of stated actions,.

Chris24601 · April 12, 2022, 09:41:59 PM

Quote from: Wrath of God on April 12, 2022, 07:20:45 PM
QuoteI've always like "narrator" because the DM narrates what happens in accordance with the mechanics and the players' stated actions.
That's bit limited because in like 99% of game there is way more input than merely narrating results of stated actions,.

Narrator is probably one of the closer non-gaming terms you're going to find in the English language that covers the role. The thing is, we don't actually need it because English invents words all the time and "Game Master" is actually the proper term invented specifically to cover the definition.

Pat · April 12, 2022, 10:03:00 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 12, 2022, 09:41:59 PM
Quote from: Wrath of God on April 12, 2022, 07:20:45 PM
QuoteI've always like "narrator" because the DM narrates what happens in accordance with the mechanics and the players' stated actions.
That's bit limited because in like 99% of game there is way more input than merely narrating results of stated actions,.
Narrator is probably one of the closer non-gaming terms you're going to find in the English language that covers the role. The thing is, we don't actually need it because English invents words all the time and "Game Master" is actually the proper term invented specifically to cover the definition.

Narrator implies an active speaker and passive audience. That's not RPGs. Referee by contrast suggests someone adjudicating the actions of players. Which is far more on the nose.

Wisithir · April 12, 2022, 10:06:33 PM

I have always favored GM as the games I tend to play in rarely have dungeons in them or even in the title of the system so Dungeon Master never fit. Conversely, Game Master still has the word master in it, and that's bad because it reminds someone that reality contravenes their delusions, or something thing like that. In at least one game GM stood for General Manager and that does a good job of encapsulating the GMs role beyond only running the game. In all honesty, if someone is troubled by what the M in GM/DM stands for, I would not want to play with them in the first place as their need to whitewash everything to their perceived sensibilities is at best insufferable.

Wisithir · April 12, 2022, 10:10:26 PM

Quote from: Pat on April 12, 2022, 10:03:00 PM
Narrator implies an active speaker and passive audience. That's not RPGs. Referee by contrast suggests someone adjudicating the actions of players. Which is far more on the nose.

Referees do not coach the opposing (NPC) team. Adjudicator might be more to the point, but still incomplete as there is more to facilitating a game than adjudicating.

Pat · April 12, 2022, 10:27:46 PM

Quote from: Wisithir on April 12, 2022, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: Pat on April 12, 2022, 10:03:00 PM
Narrator implies an active speaker and passive audience. That's not RPGs. Referee by contrast suggests someone adjudicating the actions of players. Which is far more on the nose.
Referees do not coach the opposing (NPC) team. Adjudicator might be more to the point, but still incomplete as there is more to facilitating a game than adjudicating.

GMs don't coach an opposing team, either. Referee is far superior to narrator, but it's still an imperfect fit. Hence, Game Master.

Mishihari · April 12, 2022, 10:55:32 PM

I think y'all are reading too much into it. A narrator is simply a person who says what happens. In an RPG the players get to say what they try to do, e.g. "I hit the orc with my sword." The DM is the one who gets to say what really happens, e.g. "Actually, you miss" AFAIC it's a perfect fit.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the terms "dungeonmaster" or "gamemaster," but I've always thought they sounded a little nerdy and weird to non rpg players, so they create a slight barrier to trying the games. Making it easier for people to come into the hooby is always a good thing.

Hzilong · April 12, 2022, 11:13:22 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 12, 2022, 10:55:32 PM
I think y'all are reading too much into it. A narrator is simply a person who says what happens. In an RPG the players get to say what they try to do, e.g. "I hit the orc with my sword." The DM is the one who gets to say what really happens, e.g. "Actually, you miss" AFAIC it's a perfect fit.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the terms "dungeonmaster" or "gamemaster," but I've always thought they sounded a little nerdy and weird to non rpg players, so they create a slight barrier to trying the games. Making it easier for people to come into the hooby is always a good thing.

The nerdiness is part of the appeal. Plus we have seen what happens if you don't gatekeep your hobbies and let every Tom, Dick, and Harry come in to change things.

HappyDaze · April 12, 2022, 11:23:00 PM

Quote from: Pat on April 12, 2022, 10:27:46 PM
Quote from: Wisithir on April 12, 2022, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: Pat on April 12, 2022, 10:03:00 PM
Narrator implies an active speaker and passive audience. That's not RPGs. Referee by contrast suggests someone adjudicating the actions of players. Which is far more on the nose.
Referees do not coach the opposing (NPC) team. Adjudicator might be more to the point, but still incomplete as there is more to facilitating a game than adjudicating.
GMs don't coach an opposing team, either. Referee is far superior to narrator, but it's still an imperfect fit. Hence, Game Master.

You could try the likes of games where GM = Director and Player = Actor.

Ratman_tf · April 13, 2022, 12:32:09 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 12, 2022, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: Kiero on April 12, 2022, 09:25:43 AM
The part of DM I don't like is the "Dungeon" bit, because it's presumptive and narrow. Much prefer "Game Master".

Doesn't surprise me the SJW retards have a problem with someone being called "master" at the table...

I tend to always say Games Master or GM as I play a lot of different stuff.

I use Game Master for most other games. I use Dungeon Master for D&D, and then wink at the camera so the viewing audience knows I'm using it as a dog whistle for my fellow oppressive shitlords.

Cat the Bounty Smuggler · April 13, 2022, 12:37:14 AM

Since I predicted (not that it was hard) this controversy, I'm stumping for "Day Care Attendant."

It's how the drama kids WOTC markets to now actually view the role.

Omega · April 13, 2022, 01:12:57 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 12, 2022, 09:04:36 AM
Woke is just Gnosticism wrapped in a veneer of scientism; it is the theology of unbelief... that the world is a lie and by your navel-gazing you can awaken to the truth and free yourself from its illusions; a man can be a woman because they believe it to be so and idiotic failed economic policies will work this time because they believe it will.

Theres also Nhilistic dogma spouted by the woke.
Was watching one video from a person used to like. And then out of the fucking blue they start spouting about how violence and murder are acceptable measures to combat "Systemic Racism" and the "oppression of minorities". Another one was going on about how "Every time you go to sleep you DIE and a new person takes your place..." And another extolling the "virtues" of Darth Treya's fucked up creedo of "helping people is really harming them."

And so on ad nausium.

Omega · April 13, 2022, 01:17:01 AM

This is also probably a covert push by storygamers and Pundits swine. They've been bitching about this on and off for years now.
That and how "RPGs are only about combat!"

Hence why we are seeing more and more interaction based modules and rules and the downplaying of evil races.

Storygamers have been at the spearhead of the woke movement from the get-go so this shouldnt really surprise anyone.

Thorn Drumheller · April 13, 2022, 01:31:06 AM

My vote is for "Dungeon Sensitivity Guide"/s

Wrath of God · April 13, 2022, 03:19:24 AM

QuoteNarrator is probably one of the closer non-gaming terms you're going to find in the English language that covers the role. The thing is, we don't actually need it because English invents words all the time and "Game Master" is actually the proper term invented specifically to cover the definition.

Yeah I agree.

QuoteNarrator implies an active speaker and passive audience. That's not RPGs. Referee by contrast suggests someone adjudicating the actions of players. Which is far more on the nose.

Aside of those implications - both are missing whole worldbuilding and world-managing things really. So GM trumps both.

QuoteStorygamers have been at the spearhead of the woke movement from the get-go so this shouldnt really surprise anyone.

Which is really bad on anti-woke side because narrative based game should be exploited long ago to make conservative mythical maybe even libertarian narration variants.