Quote from: Sommerjon;666335Well duh, of course I ignored that.   The amount of ranged opportunities is too situational to waste an expertise on the chances that it comes up as often as melee.
Slam has multiple effects with it.

The only difference between slam and deep wound is that slam is melee only, and imposes disadvantage.  Only an idiot would bring up extra AC because slam doesn't grant extra AC.  Nothing about that maneuver gives a bonus to AC over anyone else who happens to be using shield.

Also, seeing as how you can only use ED a few times per encounter, you're also mistaken about how often ranged vs. melee comes up in combat in re: to the importance of the maneuver.  I'm assuming that you, like most Next whiners, haven't actually played it.  Otherwise you'd know that you can't just keep using that maneuver over and over.

For example, many times (in all editions) encounters start at some sort of range.  Someone with deep wound instead of slam allows the fighter to throw an axe, spear, javelin whatever with extra damage right off the bat when the encounter starts before they get within melee, possibly taking out an enemy before the get a chance to attack you.  With slam, you have to wait until you close into melee first.

Point is, they all have advantages and one isn't clearly better than the other.  And the uber point that I was making was that the argument of "fighters will always use ED to increase damage because it's always the better choice" is flawed and false.  I already gave two examples why.  I'm just angry with myself that I allowed you to draw me into your red herring because your supposes disagreement didn't actually have anything to do with what I was saying.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;666124Another difference between the MMO generation is that they think if they kill enough creatures, they'll get phat loot.  "Dropping the legendary" so to speak.  The problem is, in most TTRPGs, "legendary loot" is often a quest item unto itself, or strategically placed in the adventure.  It's not a random drop.  TTRPGs are not a grindfest in a boring world where mobs regen after an amount of time.  TTRPG worlds are a living, evolving landscape.  It's a concept some folks have a hard time grasping.

I blame Diablo for starting this trend

I took this and ran with it... over here:

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?p=666448#post666448

I like how much people here lack selfawareness.

Here is a hint:

There is just as much system snobbery here as there is on rpg.net, the only difference is what game it is.

I just wish both sides would just shut up and enjoy their games and stop trying to shit on anyone having fun.

"LOL LOL MMO GENERATION DON'T GET RPGS THEY JUST WANT PHAT LOOTS LOL" Yeah, that shit is real awesome and mature.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;666489I just wish both sides would just shut up and enjoy their games and stop trying to shit on anyone having fun.

.

 Pot, meet kettle

Quote from: Sacrosanct;666493Pot, meet kettle

I hope you aren't referring to me. I don't think I've made a single post on either site shitting on any game. I talk about games I like. Games I don't like, I just don't CARE about.

Unless you think telling people to stop being killjoys is being a killjoy.

In which case I'm very confused.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;666504I hope you aren't referring to me. .

Yes, yes it was, because right after you just got done bitching about snobbery, you posted

Quote"LOL LOL MMO GENERATION DON'T GET RPGS THEY JUST WANT PHAT LOOTS LOL" Yeah, that shit is real awesome and mature

I found that pretty ironic, especially since it was literally the next sentence you said after telling everyone to shut up.  Seeing as how that wasn't what I said, but rather a paraphrase with hyperbole turned up to 11, followed immediately by "real mature", I found your post quite ironic and a bit hypocritical

Quote from: Emperor Norton;666489"LOL LOL MMO GENERATION DON'T GET RPGS THEY JUST WANT PHAT LOOTS LOL" Yeah, that shit is real awesome and mature.

Go weigh in on that other thread I started.  It needs conflict.  

Quote from: Sacrosanct;666505I found that pretty ironic, especially since it was literally the next sentence you said after telling everyone to shut up.  Seeing as how that wasn't what I said, but rather a paraphrase with hyperbole turned up to 11, followed immediately by "real mature", I found your post quite ironic and a bit hypocritical

Dude, I'm just tired of the "people who enjoy games I don't like just don't understand the beauty of the games I play/don't understand roleplaying/dont understand ____" bullshit. If that wasn't what you were doing, whatever, but if you are going to act like that isn't a meme on this site, then I don't know what to say.

You people are over here doing the same bullshit that they are. Pretending that the way they play is some kind of grossly inferior hobby that is unfun and should be unfun to everyone and if they enjoy it they are fundamentally flawed human beings.

That's the thing, they are wrong, too. The only thing that matters is that the table is enjoying what they are doing. Nothing else. How it gets there really doesn't matter.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;666509Pretending that the way they play is some kind of grossly inferior hobby that is unfun and should be unfun to everyone and if they enjoy it they are fundamentally flawed human beings..

Show me where I've done that.  What I have said, is that people should play whatever game they want.  I've said that people can hate whatever edition they want if it doesn't work with their preference.  I've also discussed the difference in gaming preferences over the years, and reasons why that may be (using MMOs as an example to draw parallels with).  I have not said, "people who play MMOs and like that style in RPGs are mentally broken."  The worst I've said is that there are concepts to role-playing that they don't seem to be grasping based upon their exhibited behavior.

The key difference here is that those people HAVE said that anyone who doesn't like 4e is "broken" because any other edition is objectively worse in x, y, and z areas.  The key difference is that those people are actively making up reasons that don't exist in non-4e versions to say how horrible it is and how they are all victimized.  The key difference is that it's not a random one off poster or two who are making these claims.  Not only are they extremely rampant over there, they are endorsed and encouraged by the moderation staff.

Those are pretty significant differences, so if you say this site is "just as bad", then you are either objectively wrong, or I'm sure you'll provide quotes of us doing the exact same type of behavior you're pointing out.

What Emperor said.

I wonder if ina real life table the snobbery and one-true-wayism would prevail. I suspect not. I think its an internet thing.

I think the disconnect Sacrosanct is that I wasn't directly addressing you. If I hit you with a brush that doesn't describe you (and it sounds like it doesn't), then I apologize.

And don't tell me you've never seen one of Benoist's "They don't understand what makes RPGs great" rants.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;666517I think the disconnect Sacrosanct is that I wasn't directly addressing you. If I hit you with a brush that doesn't describe you (and it sounds like it doesn't), then I apologize.

And don't tell me you've never seen one of Benoist's "They don't understand what makes RPGs great" rants.

I know that there have been posters here who have gone on such rants.  I won't deny that.  But we don't start threads like, "Tell me the fundamental problems of 4e."

The comparison is like stepping in a puddle versus jumping in a lake.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;666519I know that there have been posters here who have gone on such rants.  I won't deny that.  But we don't start threads like, "Tell me the fundamental problems of 4e."

The comparison is like stepping in a puddle versus jumping in a lake.

It's the difference between disliking a game (perhaps strongly) and spending hours upon hours talking about it.

I'll revise what I said:

While they are jackoffs, this site isn't immune to the same bug. There is a reason I post here more than there. Its not AS bad. But the idea that this site never goes off the deep end of edition warring is kind of false.

Also, as a small note: I don't read the d20 boards on RPG.net as much, because I really am not a D&D fan. So it is possible that I miss more of their bullshit and see more of the bullshit here.

Post threads you want to happen, Norton. I only see you whine about us being unjust grognards.