Quote from: Haffrung;666120Gamer 2 looks at Gamer 3: "Let's just do that raid on Mount Azzkrak again."

:rotfl:

Mount Azzkrak will be a must visit adventure location in my next campaign.

Quote from: Bill;666122One of the very few players I ever considered booting was a 'DPS Look at Me! I am the Bestest!' type.

This was my first 4E gm campaign, I had 8 players, and 4 of them were people I did not know very well.

So, this guy shows up with an Eladrin Swordmage, and at first seemed like a roleplayer. But it became obvious after a few sessions that he was a powergamer in disguise. 4E is somewhat balanced, but he managed to find overpowered broken crap regardless.

He essentially overshadowed the other characters at every opportunity.

He was also the doofus that thought his character could bully his way into a KING'S bedchamber to get an audience. duh.

I asked him three times to "make a few changes to your character and 'deoptimize' him. Take something more fun but less effective."
Each time he came back with a different optimized build.

So right as I was considering booting him, a player happened to solve the problem for me.

The other player said to him during the game "You know, you are a powergaming douchbag"

He never returned.

Good.

Rules don't fix people. People fix themselves.

The game worked as intended.

Quote from: Haffrung;666079It's a given that a lot of folks have the knives out over Next. WotC has rejected a certain playstyle and design model, and those rejected already hate something they haven't even played yet. It's only a happy coincidence that the rejected 4E community share common cause with the system matters crowd at RPGNet. Happy for the system wanks because their ranks have been swelled by some actual gamers for once..

Here's another example of exactly what I'm talking about:

QuoteMixed feelings with that. On the one hand, I do like the idea that legendaries all have unique mechanics to them. But the flip to that is that it sounds like normal monsters are going to end up being a little more bland. As in, a normal dragon/giant/whatever better stay away from villages or risk being killed by the riff raff.

Here is someone who hasn't bothered to play the game, but is making judgements based on what he or she happens to hear someone else complaining about or what they misread.

I mentioned this in my Cleric impressions thread, but a 4 member party of 3rd level characters (arcane cleric, healer cleric, fighter, and ranger) came this close to having a TPK against 8 orcs.  And 3 of those orcs didn't even arrive until about 10 rounds in.  You probably can't find a more "normal" monster than a level 1 orc.  However, I can tell you that in Next, they are not bland at all.  For one, orcs have an ability called "relentless".  What this means is that if an attack drops it to 0 hit points but doesn't kill it outright (by doing more damage in one hit that was its max HP), the orc doesn't drop but stays until the end of it's next turn.  Naturally none of our characters knew this, so a lot of attacks that would have gone towards other orcs were all centered on one because we were expecting it to drop.  Hell, we did over 25 points of damage to one orc in one round from different attacks because we thought it would drop when it hit zero like other creatures.  After it finally dropped the next round, I turned towards my dwarf companion and said, "Holy hell Koridan, we are in serious trouble if it took all that to drop just one of the brutes."
Now that we know it's a feature they have, we won't focus all on one like that because we don't need to.  But the point is that just because a creature isn't "legendary", they aren't bland at all.

Combine that with orc battle tactics, and they are anything but bland.  You better have your ducks in a row and have strategy or you will have a TPK.  Even if you're 3rd level like us.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;666141Here's another example of exactly what I'm talking about:



Here is someone who hasn't bothered to play the game, but is making judgements based on what he or she happens to hear someone else complaining about or what they misread.

I mentioned this in my Cleric impressions thread, but a 4 member party of 3rd level characters (arcane cleric, healer cleric, fighter, and ranger) came this close to having a TPK against 8 orcs.  And 3 of those orcs didn't even arrive until about 10 rounds in.  You probably can't find a more "normal" monster than a level 1 orc.  However, I can tell you that in Next, they are not bland at all.  For one, orcs have an ability called "relentless".  What this means is that if an attack drops it to 0 hit points but doesn't kill it outright (by doing more damage in one hit that was its max HP), the orc doesn't drop but stays until the end of it's next turn.  Naturally none of our characters knew this, so a lot of attacks that would have gone towards other orcs were all centered on one because we were expecting it to drop.  Hell, we did over 25 points of damage to one orc in one round from different attacks because we thought it would drop when it hit zero like other creatures.  After it finally dropped the next round, I turned towards my dwarf companion and said, "Holy hell Koridan, we are in serious trouble if it took all that to drop just one of the brutes."
Now that we know it's a feature they have, we won't focus all on one like that because we don't need to.  But the point is that just because a creature isn't "legendary", they aren't bland at all.

Combine that with orc battle tactics, and they are anything but bland.  You better have your ducks in a row and have strategy or you will have a TPK.  Even if you're 3rd level like us.

Its good to see that 8 orcs are dangerous to 4 level three characters.

Quote from: Bill;666148Its good to see that 8 orcs are dangerous to 4 level three characters.

The battle went well over a dozen rounds, probably closer to 2 dozen.  And we were seriously sweating it.  Largely because we didn't know about the relentless trait, so we kept focusing all of our attacks in one round on the same orc, not knowing that it was going to die at the end of it's next turn anyway.

And it wasn't like we were just doing a slugfest either (well, me and the fighter were).  The ranger put down caltrops to help keep us from being flanked and then shooting them from a distance, and the other cleric was using arcane magic whenever he could.

But I loved it.  That's a battle we'll remember.

Quote from: Benoist;666132Good.

Rules don't fix people. People fix themselves.

The game worked as intended.

Yeah. Well designed, elegant mechanics revealed an asshat, and he was ejected.

Skilled GMs and well written games, a powerful force for good!

Quote from: Sacrosanct;666165The battle went well over a dozen rounds, probably closer to 2 dozen.  And we were seriously sweating it.  Largely because we didn't know about the relentless trait, so we kept focusing all of our attacks in one round on the same orc, not knowing that it was going to die at the end of it's next turn anyway.

And it wasn't like we were just doing a slugfest either (well, me and the fighter were).  The ranger put down caltrops to help keep us from being flanked and then shooting them from a distance, and the other cleric was using arcane magic whenever he could.

But I loved it.  That's a battle we'll remember.

Good to hear actual playtest feedback in regards to Next. I thought Flanking was no longer a thing in Next? My room mate is also playing in a game.

Why would flanking no longer be a thing, flanking is THE thing in combat*.


*I have it on decent authority, being told so by (by now ex I suspect) a paratrooper Captain in Polish army, that when you are jumped by two man at the same time, in hand to hand combat, your chances are slim, even if you are a martial arts expert.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;666171Good to hear actual playtest feedback in regards to Next. I thought Flanking was no longer a thing in Next? My room mate is also playing in a game.

Not so much "flanking gets X bonus" but more of "We're in combat and it would really suck for our escape route to be closed off.  Which it did, but that's another matter

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;666170Yeah. Well designed, elegant mechanics revealed an asshat, and he was ejected.

I don't need "elegant mechanics" to help me notice an asshat at the game table. YMMV.

Quote from: Rincewind1;666177Why would flanking no longer be a thing, flanking is THE thing in combat*.


*I have it on decent authority, being told so by (by now ex I suspect) a paratrooper Captain in Polish army, that when you are jumped by two man at the same time, in hand to hand combat, your chances are slim, even if you are a martial arts expert.

No doubt IRL, but I was referring specifically to D&D next. I was told that the new Rogue mechanic is all about getting Advantage, and different Rogue options had different ways,including one that had a flank-like mechanic.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;666179Not so much "flanking gets X bonus" but more of "We're in combat and it would really suck for our escape route to be closed off.  Which it did, but that's another matter

Well, that's a bit odd. I'd actually say that Advantage would definitely go into flanking (and perhaps something to borrow to other systems, hmmm).

Quote from: Sacrosanct;666179Not so much "flanking gets X bonus" but more of "We're in combat and it would really suck for our escape route to be closed off.  Which it did, but that's another matter

A ha, so more of a map/positioning thing than 3.x's 'get +2 to hit of you and an ally flank an enemy', gotcha. Flank as a term as opposed to a game mechanic.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;666170Yeah. Well designed, elegant mechanics revealed an asshat, and he was ejected.

Skilled GMs and well written games, a powerful force for good!

Odd... I've never had a problem IDing asshats in any system no matter how well or poorly "designed".

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;666183A ha, so more of a map/positioning thing than 3.x's 'get +2 to hit of you and an ally flank an enemy', gotcha. Flank as a term as opposed to a game mechanic.

Yep.  I don't think Next has rules for flanking for everyone.  I suppose it could fall under the Advantage mechanic description, but isn't expressly called out.