Quote from: artikid;1033576My go-to D&D for years. I ran it mostly as written, using The Known World and other published materials.
The one thing I changed was Weapon Mastery, I think it's really a horrible implementation of a neat idea.
My advice, if you really have to have WM in your game, is to house-rule it somehow.
These days I'd also give the Thief a boost and maybe change another couple of things.

Someone on TBP did some math and found that WM is pretty close to half an extra die of damage per level of mastery. So you could simplify it by adding an extra die every two levels, for example.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1033713As much as I like Savage Worlds, the best you get for that concourse l concept is like a +2 to hit, which although meaningful, isn't nearly as cool as what an RC D&D Grandmaster of the sword can do).

It is certainly a massive power-up. The two attacks at +8/+6 compared to not using those rules would be impressive alone. Add in the damage increase to avg 15 and 13 instead of 4.5, AC Bonus, increase range, Save vs. wands vs. 3 attacks to deflect, and opponent save or be disarmed... it is definitely a completely different game, with regard to high-level fighter power. If you do want to keep dungeon adventuring after name level instead of becoming lord and general, and the DM does not want to give out a bunch of intelligent magic swords or the like to up a fighter power, it is at least conceptually a great idea. I'm not 100% plussed on the balance (All fighters are even more incentivized to be swordsmen, and everyone else should use a quarterstaff and nothing else).

QuoteAnd by "sold", I mean the tipping point. I was pretty floored to find out how great the magic item crafting rules are post purchase.

Magic item crafting? I don't recall BECMI's magic item crafting to be that different than any other post-oD&D, pre-3e version of A/D&D. A quick look at RC suggests that the key points are:

• level 9+ spellcaster
• have relevant spells (e.g. know Fly to make flying carpet
  
• have well-made item made by specialist (so weapon smith makes sword to be enchanted)
• DM determined rare and exotic components (quest items, if you will)
• chance of success based on Int (Wis for cleric) and spell level of relevant spell, with the formula of: Success Chance (%) = ([Int + character Lvl] x 2) - (3 x spell level)

What about that do you like?

Quote from: Rhedyn;1033467How should you approach this game to have fun with it as a player that is very different from what "newer" editions/games assume.

One of two ways, IMHO.  Either will work fine:

A. Take it for what it is, and run wild with it.  Embrace the assumptions embedded into the rules with "race as class" and so forth, and what that says about the society.  Run it in a setting very much like the embedded one, but extend that setting on your own.  That's more or less what we did with the original materials, before there was an RC.  We didn't have some of the later stuff, such as the skills and the weapon mastery.  

B. Tweak it to fit an alternate setting that still takes the core idea at face value.  This one is a little more difficult to explain, and is the way I've used it since.  One example might clarify, though.  Conceptually, I don't much like "race for class."  It causes extra work for me that I'd rather avoid.  But to tweak the setting and keep the core concepts, you don't separate race and class.  Instead, you make up different "classes" to fit your setting.  If not all elf adventurers are fighter/magic user hybrids, but are instead either swashbuckling types or nature casters, then you make two classes named something appropriate for those things, and note them under elf.  In this way of seeing things, maybe all elves are "Rangers" or "Druids" (or "Shaman") and no one else is.  That's why "rangers" have magic--they are all elves, and all elves are at least a little magical.  Maybe the existing "cleric"--the heavily armored divine caster, is only a dwarven thing.  Then you add a "Priest" class or a "Hermit" class or whatever your concept of a human divine caster is, or even mix and max between that an magic users to get a "Loremaster" class or some other kind of hybrid.  However you do it (and race as class is just one example of the thing), when you are playing, everyone's got a simple "class" that advances according to some formula.  You roll up stats, you pick a class, and off you go.  

All the other things you asked about, to me are just tools in the toolbox.  They might be applicable to a given campaign or not, but I'm feeling fairly secure in adding them, banning them, or altering them as needed.  The core thing is fairly resilient.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1033721Magic item crafting? I don't recall BECMI's magic item crafting to be that different than any other post-oD&D, pre-3e version of A/D&D. A quick look at RC suggests that the key points are:

• level 9+ spellcaster
• have relevant spells (e.g. know Fly to make flying carpet
  
• have well-made item made by specialist (so weapon smith makes sword to be enchanted)
• DM determined rare and exotic components (quest items, if you will)
• chance of success based on Int (Wis for cleric) and spell level of relevant spell, with the formula of: Success Chance (%) = ([Int + character Lvl] x 2) - (3 x spell level)

What about that do you like?

Weapons, armor, consumables, wondrous, and even constructs (including custom) all in the core book and at prices/time that's actually doable. And then tops it off with the rules I need to make a flying castle.

Also gives me a reason to make all these dungeon runs feel organic (Wizard needs a rare component and will pay nicely for it. Wizard lost control of his basement and hires adventurers to find things for him, ect.)

But I don't have to pay xp, build for feats, optimize a crafting familiar, allow fighters to do it (4e rituals), or be given bunk rules that basically tell me I shouldn't let my players do this (5e). Admittedly, I don't know what 2e or 1e asked of the caster.

PF's custom magic item section (probably just a reprint of 3.5) had a lot of the same stuff, but PF is rules heavy and a tad too intricately balanced to let one weird item derail a campaign.
Savage Worlds various magic item creation rules aren't as comprehensive (no constructs or flying castles).

Quote from: Rhedyn;1033735But I don't have to pay xp, build for feats, optimize a crafting familiar, allow fighters to do it (4e rituals), or be given bunk rules that basically tell me I shouldn't let my players do this (5e). Admittedly, I don't know what 2e or 1e asked of the caster.

Er, yeah. About that... It was pretty much another 'yes you can, but you'll never want to' situation like 5e. Pretty much exactly like the BECMI rules, except also requiring the casting of a Permanency spell (requiring the permanent expenditure of a point of Constitution).

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1033770Er, yeah. About that... It was pretty much another 'yes you can, but you'll never want to' situation like 5e. Pretty much exactly like the BECMI rules, except also requiring the casting of a Permanency spell (requiring the permanent expenditure of a point of Constitution).

Yeah something I've also noticed is that spells don't ruin you like they can in 2e. Like Permanency is an 8th level spell, but it doesn't drain your con.

But I think BECMI supports characters taking on less risky adventuring roles more than other editions. You can still gain xp and wealth without taking a huge risk.
I'm seeing more support for troupe play or branching narratives/multiple-DMs where high level characters go on a personal quest away from the party and then attract new allies to help.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1033467What are some assumptions that the game makes that would be alien to "modern" players?

How should you approach this game to have fun with it as a player that is very different from what "newer" editions/games assume.

What kind of adventures did you run in it?

Did you bother using Mystara or did you use custom settings?

How did you handle thief skills vs general skills vs "ability checks" (or did you even use these)?

Did you like the weapon mastery system?

The main advice I would provide is this: make sure your setting acts like the various conceits of the system are part of the reality of the world.

Mystara is a great setting for BECMI/RC because it does just that.