No, the OSR isn't a scam

HappyDaze · October 03, 2021, 11:46:59 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 03, 2021, 11:42:26 PM
Quote from: Snowman0147 on October 03, 2021, 11:29:07 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 03, 2021, 10:55:39 PMEdit: It couldn't be because I wanted to talk about his "arguments" and not put him on blast, or send anyone to tell him off... no, it must be because I'm affraid of him saying words on the internet....

I called CondorDM a little bitch all because I asked him a simple question which he gave me attitude. After showing how he wants to be treated CondorDM then deleted my post proving me right. Its in the comments of his second video.

He deleted his answers to me, mustn't be too sure of his position.

Maybe he didn't want to scare you anymore.

Steven Mitchell · October 04, 2021, 09:59:42 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 03, 2021, 11:13:57 PM

I don't advocate for banning people (with rare exceptions) but the ignore feature I do think it's a goot tool. I would wish for one where I didn't have to see he answers to me.

It's all about signal to noise. Some folks, it's all noise, all the time. Any signal is apparently accidental.

I used to worry about the length of my ignore list. Then I started noticing that at any given time, 50% to 75% of it are posters that either are banned, about to deliberately provoke a ban, or wander off in a huff. Then I remember signal to noise ratio and don't sweat the exceptions whose apparent sole reason for being here is to create as much noise as possible.

On topic, any "group" that is really a lot of independent actors under a loose umbrella is going to display some bad behavior, get tarred by it by those with an agenda, and survive it because it is independent.

Thorn Drumheller · October 04, 2021, 12:57:29 PM

So I googled it. Listened to the two videos. Honestly, his argument doesn't really have any validity. Other than I agree that people can just be shitty no matter who they are. And also, he sounded a bit ... incoherent.

estar · October 04, 2021, 01:18:15 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 03, 2021, 07:23:15 PM
Saw a video claiming the #OSR is a scam. Allow me to disagree.

I saw a video where GeekyBugle flew down to Uruguay to play and film a session of Blue Rose with the RPGPundit and it turns out they both loved it as written.

HappyDaze · October 04, 2021, 01:25:41 PM

Quote from: estar on October 04, 2021, 01:18:15 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on October 03, 2021, 07:23:15 PM
Saw a video claiming the #OSR is a scam. Allow me to disagree.
I saw a video where GeekyBugle flew down to Uruguay to play and film a session of Blue Rose with the RPGPundit and it turns out they both loved it as written.

And the unedited film shows them adapting it into a LARP.

jhkim · October 04, 2021, 01:25:58 PM

I haven't watched it, but I assume this is the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJJTvDTxMeY

On the general topic, I would agree with GeekyBugle. As far as I know, OSR products are delivering exactly what they advertise, so I wouldn't call them a "scam". If the concern is that they're not adding significant creativity and instead just riding on the content and creativity of old-school D&D, then one might call a product a "ripoff" or just overpriced and/or uncreative - but not a scam.

hedgehobbit · October 04, 2021, 01:28:32 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on October 04, 2021, 12:57:29 PM
So I googled it. Listened to the two videos. Honestly, his argument doesn't really have any validity.

I listened to the video and, while his argument wasn't the best, his main point was sound. If you want to play an old-school game then just play an old-school game. You don't need any luminaries to try to tell you what counts as an "old-school" game. And while people might like clones, the OSR isn't actually needed for clones to exists as you can plainly see by all the clones of non-OSR games.

GeekyBugle completely mischaracterized the video's main point.

estar · October 04, 2021, 02:13:53 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 04, 2021, 01:25:41 PM
And the unedited film shows them adapting it into a LARP.

Quote from: jhkim on October 04, 2021, 01:25:58 PM
I haven't watched it, but I assume this is the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJJTvDTxMeY

If it is that video here is the transscript. I tried to break up into logical paragraphs however it was hard to do for the last half due it being an extended criticism of various osr publishers being hucksters.

Quoteif you want to try old-school dungeons and dragons go purchase the first edition dungeons and dragons the first edition advanced dungeons dragons and the second edition advanced dungeons and dragons you can purchase these you can find these no problem check amazon check all kinds of places easy peasy to get this stuff i'd say do that instead of going to a thing called the osr

a very long infomercial ran by a bunch of cheap car salesmen that are out to make money the osr is a scam in my personal opinion it's not to push old-school gaming forward in a healthy way it's people that want to make money and they'll do whatever is necessary to do so there is a foothold into the hobby through the osr door but only if you give it to them in the osr

they make a thing called clones of the older dnd games which really just means it's a copy and paste with some new words added

now i'm not just degrading all their work down to that but all they're doing is remapping old dnd now in some cases the osr represents non-dungeons and dragons games but guess what you can simply just go research non-dnd games from the 80s 90s yourself and skip what they call the osr do your own purchasing that's how you want to go back and experience the old school don't you know pay attention to the osr don't go bother buying those products go get the original d d that's how you try old school dungeons and dragons

now after that if you want to keep playing these games maybe then go look at the osr right they're doing some different things not too many different things mostly scamming for money in my opinion not that i hate everybody there but it does seem like when you're watching many other videos especially guys that are selling products you know it just seems like it's a long commercial for their product right it's a constant sales pitch and even when they get on to say something other than selling their product like just say something about the the hobby you know how you game what you do you know they say it for a minute but it seems meaningless to them like they're just saying that so you don't blame them for only selling a product to you like they're you know they don't want you to see their videos at some you know commercial coming up just to sell the product they want to be able to put out videos and act like everybody else and then go hey but i'm selling a product to no big issue well let's be honest your main reason for being here is the product and the money and if the product and the money wasn't here would you be protesting negative things would you be part of the conversations would you have up you know you know live stream chats on youtube i don't think most of them would be here if they weren't making money i think that's the revival part it's not that people started playing the game again people started making money off the old game again anyway take care

estar · October 04, 2021, 02:14:54 PM

Duplicate

estar · October 04, 2021, 02:19:38 PM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on October 04, 2021, 01:28:32 PM
I listened to the video and, while his argument wasn't the best, his main point was sound. If you want to play an old-school game then just play an old-school game. You don't need any luminaries to try to tell you what counts as an "old-school" game. And while people might like clones, the OSR isn't actually needed for clones to exists as you can plainly see by all the clones of non-OSR games.

DriveThruRPG has print on demand options as well. $22 plus shipping for the standard color hardback.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17003/Players-Handbook-1e

D&D Rules Cyclopedia
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17171/DD-Rules-Cyclopedia-Basic?src=hottest_filtered

HappyDaze · October 04, 2021, 02:47:13 PM

Quote from: estar on October 04, 2021, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on October 04, 2021, 01:28:32 PM
I listened to the video and, while his argument wasn't the best, his main point was sound. If you want to play an old-school game then just play an old-school game. You don't need any luminaries to try to tell you what counts as an "old-school" game. And while people might like clones, the OSR isn't actually needed for clones to exists as you can plainly see by all the clones of non-OSR games.
DriveThruRPG has print on demand options as well. $22 plus shipping for the standard color hardback.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17003/Players-Handbook-1e

D&D Rules Cyclopedia
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17171/DD-Rules-Cyclopedia-Basic?src=hottest_filtered

I never played Basic beyond the second box. After that it was AD&D for my group. I've heard a lot of good things about the Basic RC, so I'm now thinking of picking it up. The DTRPG page makes me a little torn over the softcover vs. hardcover though. I normally always go for hardcover, but in this case, there are a lot of people noting problems/defects with the hardcover...

Jaeger · October 04, 2021, 04:19:22 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 04, 2021, 02:47:13 PM
...
I never played Basic beyond the second box. After that it was AD&D for my group. I've heard a lot of good things about the Basic RC, so I'm now thinking of picking it up. The DTRPG page makes me a little torn over the softcover vs. hardcover though. I normally always go for hardcover, but in this case, there are a lot of people noting problems/defects with the hardcover...

There are also those of us who don't want to give WotC our money.

OSR offerings are a viable alternative to avoid this.

Pat · October 04, 2021, 05:18:43 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 04, 2021, 02:47:13 PM
Quote from: estar on October 04, 2021, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on October 04, 2021, 01:28:32 PM
I listened to the video and, while his argument wasn't the best, his main point was sound. If you want to play an old-school game then just play an old-school game. You don't need any luminaries to try to tell you what counts as an "old-school" game. And while people might like clones, the OSR isn't actually needed for clones to exists as you can plainly see by all the clones of non-OSR games.
DriveThruRPG has print on demand options as well. $22 plus shipping for the standard color hardback.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17003/Players-Handbook-1e

D&D Rules Cyclopedia
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17171/DD-Rules-Cyclopedia-Basic?src=hottest_filtered
I never played Basic beyond the second box. After that it was AD&D for my group. I've heard a lot of good things about the Basic RC, so I'm now thinking of picking it up. The DTRPG page makes me a little torn over the softcover vs. hardcover though. I normally always go for hardcover, but in this case, there are a lot of people noting problems/defects with the hardcover...

Mine's okay, but I've barely opened it (it's a backup), so that may not mean anything. I probably have the same printing as the commenter, because I too have multiple copies of Unearthed Arcana that they sent me before finally sending me a Rules Cyclopedia. They really screwed up that rollout.

HappyDaze · October 04, 2021, 05:37:43 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on October 04, 2021, 04:19:22 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on October 04, 2021, 02:47:13 PM
...
I never played Basic beyond the second box. After that it was AD&D for my group. I've heard a lot of good things about the Basic RC, so I'm now thinking of picking it up. The DTRPG page makes me a little torn over the softcover vs. hardcover though. I normally always go for hardcover, but in this case, there are a lot of people noting problems/defects with the hardcover...

There are also those of us who don't want to give WotC our money.

OSR offerings are a viable alternative to avoid this.

Yeah, but if what I want to drink is a Coke and I can get a Coke, I'm not going settle for a Sam's Cola. I'm OK with getting the real thing rather than a cheap knock-off...

And look, this circles back to the whole point of the video that prompted this thread.

Shasarak · October 04, 2021, 05:41:51 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on October 04, 2021, 05:37:43 PM
Yeah, but if what I want to drink is a Coke and I can get a Coke, I'm not going settle for a Sam's Cola. I'm OK with getting the real thing rather than a cheap knock-off...

The problem is that if I want to play 2e then I dont just need the official 2e books, I also need to get my extensive house rules folder that I used to cudgel the 2e rules into submission.