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Author Topic: No racist characters allowed  (Read 9589 times)

trechriron

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2021, 01:30:52 AM »
I support diversity. I support BLM. I support LBGTQIA+ creators making the cool games they want to play.

What I don't understand is shying away from tough issues in historical settings. These issues have been explored with all the stinging truth of the past to great effect (see Lovecraft Country for example). Part of the delight for me in an RPG is exploring the human condition. It's not a primary thing (that would be fun) but there's something about stepping into the shoes of this imaginary person that can be cathartic. Pretending like 1776 was an idealistic place of diversity is absurd.

Why not just create a fresh new setting with some 18th century flavor? Just grab the handful (I mean, what else would be left?) of the tropes, themes, or elements you really wanted to explore in your rainbow happy sort-of 18th century land, and run with it! Again, my liberal cohorts have jumped the shark.

Being respectful of someone's experiences, beliefs, or traumas does not require us to rewrite history. It doesn't require much special handling at all. If an African-American responds to your game advertisement to the 1776 game, and wants to play an escaped slave, and explore kicking some old-timey ass - you are not really required to glad-handle them (they responded to the game set in an historical setting and obviously understand what the are about to embark on). If you believe there might be an issue, have a conversation about it before the game. Make sure everyone is on the same page.

Nothing about this game sounds fun. Why would I play this? To experience the War of Independence? Cool. Set the game in the near future, say 2050 AD. ETs have invaded Earth and control 70% of the planet. The humans discover some cool new thing(tm) (like guerilla tactics or something?) that gives them an edge, and VIOLA! you have a new war of independence. It's the future - so nobody cares about your race, sexuality, or religion. If you can fight, you're in. The rebel forces are a diverse lot, truly fighting for liberty and equality. Easy as potato pie.

If you're trying to just FORGET the past  -- you chose a funny way of doing it.

Once again, if my friends would get off the couch and actually DO SOMETHING to fight for social justice, they would likely expunge some of this guilt and feel like they accomplished something. Self-masturbatory "Justice Porn" is hardly cutting the mustard.

I cant' believe I backed the first two Zweihander KSs, this has turned into a deluxe shit-show. I'm genuinely embarrassed.
Trentin C Bergeron (trechriron)
Bard, Creative & RPG Enthusiast

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D.O.N.G. Black-Belt (Thanks tenbones!)

HappyDaze

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2021, 01:38:58 AM »
I notice that the DTRPG entry for this product has already had a lot of critical comments washed away. Yesterday, people were expressing dislike for the product, but you wouldn't know it if you went there now.

Pat
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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2021, 02:12:47 AM »
I didn't really read X-men before 1986...and I got MSH around then too. IIRC, by then, Wolverine was killing fairly often (Marauders, Reavers, Hellfire Club Henchmen, etc.).
I think the Marauders were where it shifted for the X-Men. The deaths before that were things like the Dark Phoenix storyline, where one death was the climax of the whole thing.

The exception was alternate futures. Days of Future Past, that Conan sorcerer who took over Manhattan, and some of the stuff in Limbo were pretty dark, but it wasn't the real X-Men, more a What If/nightmare that got reverted.

Pat
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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2021, 02:28:11 AM »
OK, but aside from specifics of HappyDaze, doesn't that confirms what I said about the general point? The MSH RPG effectively restricted what the personality of the characters could be. The players can't choose to be Iron Age antiheroes like Deadpool, and they can't choose to be villains.
The mechanics don't work like that. Advancement is incredibly (unearthly?) slow in MSH, so there was really no point in socking away Karma in the hopes of bumping a Ex (18) to Ex (19). So all that happened with a *snikt* was the character lost their immediate Karma reserve. Which could hurt, but Karma is supposed to be a dynamic thing, constantly ebbing and flowing through the course of the adventure. While it does encourage killers to keep a bit more of an eye on their Karma total just to ensure they don't get caught with too many points when they decide they're in the mood for a killing, it's not really that big a deal. Because no heroes should be running around with high totals, and it only takes a scene or three to earn enough Karma to succeed at the right moment, or to pull off a new power stunt.

The biggest impact is probably Karma pools. The X-Men shouldn't allow Wolvie to join their pool because one bad moment with a Japanese ninja henchman mutant cyborg in a bondage outfit, and he zeros out the whole thing. That makes it harder to shift Karma to him at the right moment.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 02:37:41 AM by Pat »

Shawn Driscoll

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2021, 02:37:07 AM »
Don't let democrats at your game table.

Jam The MF

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2021, 02:48:34 AM »
Don't let democrats at your game table.

Don't let them run your game table.
Let the Dice, Decide the Outcome.  Accept the Results.

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2021, 05:48:02 AM »
I'm a fan of Col Gothic but I don't know anything the new campaign. I see it using a semi-realistic tone so therefore I play it as if it was historically accurate. I'm not going to sanitize the game or alter history for someone's fee fees. In their games they can all play fluffy kittens for all I care.
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Omega

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2021, 06:11:10 AM »
The only concrete example I gave was Marvel Superheroes, where you effectively aren't allowed to play antiheroes like Deadpool or the Punisher because of the karma rules. But Deadpool and the Punisher are, in fact, characters in the Marvel setting. So that isn't a setting rule -- it's just a game restriction.

If I recall right in MSH you could play Deadpool or Punisher. Its just that they tend to not get much or lose what they have alot faster.
In Concrete Jungle Punisher is statted out and some of the modules have him as a playable pregen or in Lone Wolves he is an NPC the players need to stop. In MSH the system discourages killing and going too far. But you can. At a loss. Dont have the core books on hand so cant look it up.

Warder

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2021, 06:14:31 AM »
Good old Sniktbub never struck me as a hero type really. Hes nice and all but he was designed as a killing machine ''Weapon X'' for crying out loud. A karma meter should show his ethics and morality as radically diffrent from the baseline human norm. Racism should not really apply to him imho, with his current Hickman take on the mutants, they are not even human by their own definition.

As to what the new golden standart set by some random game designer is, i can only say hes welcome to his new world view, may he reap all the rewards from it, especially the ones that censorship gives in the end.

DM_Curt

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2021, 06:53:05 AM »
Greetings!

Roll up a dashing, uber-Alpha masculine bastard that is a total Imperialist, Colonizing, misogynistic, and racist monster. Watch the fun unfold! *Laughing* Go forth and let the party dominate and plough through every sacred cow and special snow-flake icon that the game has established. Keep some cold beer handy, and light up some good cigars along the way. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

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hedgehobbit

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2021, 07:53:47 AM »
The only concrete example I gave was Marvel Superheroes, where you effectively aren't allowed to play antiheroes like Deadpool or the Punisher because of the karma rules. But Deadpool and the Punisher are, in fact, characters in the Marvel setting. So that isn't a setting rule -- it's just a game restriction.

It's one thing for a super hero game to have rules to make players play heroic characters, or to play cold-blooded killers in a James Bond game. But this is a historical horror game. There's nothing in that genre that would restrict players to a specific set of modern beliefs. So while I don't think it's always unethical for games to restrict character choice, this one particular example is bait-and-switch.

Marchand

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2021, 09:43:54 AM »
The idea of putting it in your game set in the 18th century that PCs cannot have attitudes that were prevalent in the 18th century sounds nuts to me.

It also seems quite commercially unwise, as many of us who might be interested in buying such a niche product probably already have all the rules systems we will ever need and would be buying this mainly or only for setting info. Judging by the attitude to history revealed by this pompous virtue signalling garbage, I would probably look for my setting info elsewhere. Likewise, it seems guaranteed to put off another prospective niche, AWI buffs.

Anyway if you want to play an escaped slave then you can fight for the good guys, the British.
"If the English surrender, it'll be a long war!"
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S'mon

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2021, 09:59:28 AM »
Anyway if you want to play an escaped slave then you can fight for the good guys, the British.

Hear hear!

Armchair Gamer

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2021, 10:22:04 AM »
I saw the bit in the previews about the Knights Templar running a witch hunt in Maryland. Anyone with the game know if that's supposed to be Catholic Church-sanctioned? (The mere concept is already rife with anachronisms, but that would just really take the cake ... )

Armchair Gamer

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Re: No racist characters allowed
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2021, 10:22:42 AM »
Anyway if you want to play an escaped slave then you can fight for the good guys, the British.

  The intro chapter, at least, explicitly forbids Loyalist PCs. :)