In my regular game, it's not unknown for there to be 4 hours of just talking. It's not the norm, but it's not fatal either.

Plotting, rumors, exposition, spying, flirting and assorted intrique. Politics. Sometimes history. All that good stuff.

I like a mix, so the next session is usually more violently stepped up.

Quote from: Simlasa;768772I'm the same. 'Pure Concentrated Evil' just hits me as silly. My favorite villains are more complex than that.
Some monsters are pure threat, beyond redemption... but I still don't think in terms of 'evil' or 'good'.

I do.  I've lived with evil.

The funny part is they never view themselves as such.  They think of themselves as good people.  Because they never view any consequences of their actions as actually being relevant - only what they "need" at the time or "intend".

"It wasn't my fault!  I was hungry so I had to steal that food!  And when the guy stopped me he made me feel so threatened I had to protect myself!  And I only killed him because I got so worked up - because he *attacked me*, of course - that I couldn't stop myself!"

I'll happily admit such people are very rare.  But they fit any definition of evil that I can think of.  And if you haven't encountered that before - I am envious of you.  That is knowledge you don't want.

Quote from: robiswrong;769810I do.  I've lived with evil.

The funny part is they never view themselves as such.  They think of themselves as good people.  Because they never view any consequences of their actions as actually being relevant - only what they "need" at the time or "intend".

"It wasn't my fault!  I was hungry so I had to steal that food!  And when the guy stopped me he made me feel so threatened I had to protect myself!  And I only killed him because I got so worked up - because he *attacked me*, of course - that I couldn't stop myself!"

Sounds like narcissism. I read an article recently on how narcissists are difficult to treat because they generally don't recognize that they're narcissists or that there is anything wrong with them. Rather, their sense of entitlement and iron-clad faith that anything that has gone wrong isn't their fault makes them confident that they are, in fact, one of the only people in the world who are actually healthy and correct. Everyone else is deficient and cannot live up to their standards, which is not their fault.

Narcissistic villains are fun. They're also the ones that will, should they garner respect for the heroes, decide "we're not so different after all" and set out to prove it.

I'm currently running a Black Crusade game that's heavy on intrigue and light on combat. There's still some combat (it IS Warhammer) but out of the past four sessions, we had a total of 2 serious combats (killing some unsuspecting schlup because it's expedient doesn't count). Most of the time has been spent hob-nobbing with other people of power, plotting and planning, intra-party discussion and (non-violent) conflict, amassing a power base, gathering information, and so on.

Combat is a fun part of games; I can't think of a game where it'd be 100% off the table, but I do like it when it's not the main, central focus of a game.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;769880Sounds like narcissism.

A lot of those traits are common in various Cluster B Personality Disorders, which would include sociopathy, BPD, and NPD as well as others.

I know where you (i.e., the OP) are coming from, and wouldn't look askance at you for your feelings on the subject, but I can't say it bothers me.  For whatever reason, for better or worse, I don't equate violence in fantasy games I play with violence in the real world.

I don't seek out or revel in in real-life violence, and wouldn't say I'm a violent person, but I do enjoy violent books/games/movies.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;769903I don't equate violence in fantasy games I play with violence in the real world.

I don't seek out or revel in in real-life violence

I can say with certainty that were an orc, skeleton or zombie to appear in my street, I would not feel bad about killing it.

Quote from: saskganesh;769800In my regular game, it's not unknown for there to be 4 hours of just talking. It's not the norm, but it's not fatal either.

Plotting, rumors, exposition, spying, flirting and assorted intrique. Politics. Sometimes history. All that good stuff.

I like a mix, so the next session is usually more violently stepped up.

The "we sit in the inn discussing tactics" session. While the GM patiently waits for his big moment. Again.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;769949I can say with certainty that were an orc, skeleton or zombie to appear in my street, I would not feel bad about killing it.

Can't say I would either, but I'd probably be much more likely to flee the scene.

That or bar the door, call the local tavern, and ask to speak to the mysterious man in the corner with the black hood.

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;769953The "we sit in the inn discussing tactics" session. While the GM patiently waits for his big moment. Again.

Bah, get your GM to run Rough Night at the Three Feathers.  Players will never look at Inns the same way again.

Disclaimer: I did not just claim that playing WFRP of any edition affects the physiology of your eyes.

Quote from: saskganesh;769800In my regular game, it's not unknown for there to be 4 hours of just talking. It's not the norm, but it's not fatal either.

Plotting, rumors, exposition, spying, flirting and assorted intrique. Politics. Sometimes history. All that good stuff.

I like a mix, so the next session is usually more violently stepped up.

I can't forget the occasion when an AD&Der proclaimed that Champions was not really a game, just free-form roleplaying. He happened to see a campaign in action on a night that was not devoted to playing out a combat.

Quote from: Phillip;770626I can't forget the occasion when an AD&Der proclaimed that Champions was not really a game, just free-form roleplaying. He happened to see a campaign in action on a night that was not devoted to playing out a combat.

That has nothing to do with the game system(s) involved, but more the playstyle expectations of the observer.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;770668That has nothing to do with the game system(s) involved, but more the playstyle expectations of the observer.

Maybe you've never played a combat in Champions, which is like Star Fleet Battles with figures instead of ships. Or maybe you missed the point. Maybe it's a "had to be there" kind of funny.

Quote from: Phillip;770675Maybe you've never played a combat in Champions, which is like Star Fleet Battles with figures instead of ships. Or maybe you missed the point. Maybe it's a "had to be there" kind of funny.

I get it. But I'm saying that the suposition that unless a lot of dice rolling and rules are involved that it's "not a real RPG" has nothing to do with the observer playing AD&D and more that the observer equates dice rolling and rules involvement with RPGness. I played AD&D back in the day and likewise had entire sessions go by without touching the dice once. I, as an AD&Der, would not have come to the same conclusion. In fact, the heavy use of figures, rather than their lack, would have been the turn off for me. So if I, as an AD&Der had been present at that game I'd have drawn the opposite conclusion. athe irony lies in the fact that each of us would have been wrong where our preferences were concerned. And thats about us, not the game systems.

So thats why I say it has nothing to do with the system and everything to do with expectations.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;769880Sounds like narcissism. I read an article recently on how narcissists are difficult to treat because they generally don't recognize that they're narcissists or that there is anything wrong with them. Rather, their sense of entitlement and iron-clad faith that anything that has gone wrong isn't their fault makes them confident that they are, in fact, one of the only people in the world who are actually healthy and correct. Everyone else is deficient and cannot live up to their standards, which is not their fault.

Or sheer survival instinct.  We don't call jungle predators narcissistic, for instance, for taking down prey and eating them, instead of letting the prey live or other predators killing them.

Honestly, I've always felt good-evil to be very subjective values, and anyone who thinks otherwise just isn't paying attention to the world.  On abortion, on capital punishment, on same-sex marriage, on the slaughter of whales, on any number of sectarian and nationalist issues, there are sincere and honest people on both sides who consider their POV the only conceivable right-thinking way, and the other side to be wrong and misguided at best and sick and perverted at worst ... presuming they don't then go on to believe that the only way to settle the score is to exterminate the opposition.