I personally can enjoy RPGs far afield from the literal wargame roots, but my current regular group of players is primarily into "blowing off steam" with the typical combat-oriented scenarios.

Quote from: LordVreeg;766202yep.  destroys a good mood every time.

Films that go for cheap emotional hits by putting kids in danger (any major blockbuster ever) just irk me.

This gets me intrigued by the challenge of coming up with an RP scenario outside the "pulp adventure" genres that could appeal to my crew. After all, we play lots of non-RP games that don't involve violence.

Some factors that come to mind in the RP context:

1) Clear goals and options for attaining them - "moves" if you will.

2) Frequent "power up" rewards - like the levels and magic items they love in D&D.

3) They do enjoy the puzzle aspect of D&D, some indeed especially, so social interaction that boils down to puzzle solving might be more interesting.

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;766262Films that go for cheap emotional hits by putting kids in danger (any major blockbuster ever) just irk me.

Yes, it can be a cheap way of generating drama.

The problem with 1989's point is twofold, firstly lots of us do have kids threatened in game (I had an evil orphanage in my Pendragon game for example where the knights had to protect innocents from an evil sorceror), secondly these are ultimately games.

Confronting the worst real world evils in a game isn't actually confronting them at all, because it's still a game. It risks just being misery tourism.

Quote from: Phillip;766269This gets me intrigued by the challenge of coming up with an RP scenario outside the "pulp adventure" genres that could appeal to my crew. After all, we play lots of non-RP games that don't involve violence.

Some factors that come to mind in the RP context:

1) Clear goals and options for attaining them - "moves" if you will.

2) Frequent "power up" rewards - like the levels and magic items they love in D&D.

3) They do enjoy the puzzle aspect of D&D, some indeed especially, so social interaction that boils down to puzzle solving might be more interesting.

Could not agree more.  These were all criterion for me, although a huge does or player agency and sandboxing are also needed.
Though part of the 'mystery/puzzle' side is learning what their goals might be and uncovering the possible 'moves'.  Those have become very contingent on each other.

But then, some children are harder to endanger than others, in my recent GURPS Bane Storm campaign, the precious little street urchin was a dragon.

Killing to oppose the truly evil, or to protect the truly good, is not a failing.

True but I'm tired of evil too.  I'd rather have villains with motives and weaknesses and indeed virtues.  And if the villain isn't purely evil how much more so should the mooks be humanized?  Sure you get the psychopaths and such but just as with the zombie apocalypse, it's the other humans you really need to worry about.

Quote from: David Johansen;768702True but I'm tired of evil too.  I'd rather have villains with motives and weaknesses and indeed virtues.

I'm the same. 'Pure Concentrated Evil' just hits me as silly. My favorite villains are more complex than that.
Some monsters are pure threat, beyond redemption... but I still don't think in terms of 'evil' or 'good'.

Quote from: Simlasa;768772I'm the same. 'Pure Concentrated Evil' just hits me as silly. My favorite villains are more complex than that.
Some monsters are pure threat, beyond redemption... but I still don't think in terms of 'evil' or 'good'.

that's in the above category, it can be disposed of due to the opposition to society...Other motivated NPCs that oppose the group with mixed morals?  Very different.

Good people can do horrible things if they are convinced is for a good cause. If that makes them evil or not is a complex matter.

In my RQ game my players have met decadent, Chaos-consorting Lunars worthy only of a sword to the gut, and decent, honorable and straight Lunars who were respected enemies because well, we're at war, but who would never commit an atrocity. It depends.

Guess I will be the asshole to say that I fucking hate having an eggshell of a player getting all bent out of whack when something in game has real world parallels.  

Players seeking a non-violent solution because they think it will be fun or the right thing to do in the situation = awesome, let's game on!

Players seeking a non-violent solution because people in the real world die = shit.

One reason I'm excited about Fate is that it offers a very nice overlay to just about any conflict.

If I want to run a conflict scene as a bar argument, a research project, exploring the Deneb sector, or whatever the hell else I feel like doing... I can.

Nobody needs to die, the stakes don't have to be DOOOOOM, people can just... go do stuff.

And there's still mechanical teeth and consequences to worry about.

I am a WoD gamer, so that means there isn't a whole lot of combat. When it happens it is usually brief and violent and with a lot of consequences. Most of time is spend with either social interaction and court politics or with mystery investigation. Mostly the latter. So it isn't that different from a Cthulhu game.

Most fantasy, cyberpunk or post-apocalyptic games have more combat, because most NPC's are combat NPC's. The non-combat NPC's are usually the quest givers or the shopkeepers. When you set foot outside town the entire area is populated with wildlife and monsters, who you can kill because they have ... gems or something.

Of course there are also more realistic fantasy RPG's like the Game of Thrones RPG or maybe HarnMaster (not really familiar with that one). Those RPG's have a more realistic economy with agriculture, craftsmen, trading. You don't kill people as easy if you get to know them and know where they live and work.

I throw in an enormous cliché. In the end it's all about your gaming group. There are D&D players who roleplay in a mature way and focus a lot on the story that develops and there are WoD gamers (especially Hunter) playing it like a dungeon crawl. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But it gets old hat after a while.

Playing a mystery game is more difficult than a combat campaign. The pacing is always tricky. But I find it more rewarding than just hacking and slashing everything that moves. I have on average one combat scene every four hours or so.

Quote from: Old One Eye;769266Guess I will be the asshole to say that I fucking hate having an eggshell of a player getting all bent out of whack when something in game has real world parallels.  

Players seeking a non-violent solution because they think it will be fun or the right thing to do in the situation = awesome, let's game on!

Players seeking a non-violent solution because people in the real world die = shit.

The thread is a bit more about the rare games where violence happens a lot less frequently.