Some people just get tired of working for ' the man' and seek employment that offers them more of a chance to do what they really enjoy.

It happens all the time. Dude wakes up one morning and decides he isn't enjoying the same old grind anymore. It can happen in any industry even rpg design.

Well, mystery solved, I guess.  Judging by the commentary here, it looks like Monte and Bruce had to leave WotC if they had their own projects and didn't want WoTC to have rights to it.  Monte had Numenara.

Which makes sense.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;671601Well, mystery solved, I guess.  Judging by the commentary here, it looks like Monte and Bruce had to leave WotC if they had their own projects and didn't want WoTC to have rights to it.  Monte had Numenara.

Which makes sense.

WOW... that is a retarded logic.

Quote from: Benoist;671605WOW... that is a retarded logic.

It's very common that any work created while on the job, or using workplace materials (computers, etc), is owned by the company.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;671607It's very common that any work created while on the job, or using workplace materials (computers, etc), is owned by the company.

Yes but that's not just it. ANYTHING creative you do is ipso facto owned by the company. You can use your own computer, never use the company's pencil sharpener or photocopier... anything creative coming out of your brain is owned by the company. Period. You can't do freelance on the side, you can't have an imprint at your own name for side projects, nothing.

This is retarded. As mentioned in Stan!'s post, companies like Blizzard don't do this.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;671607It's very common that any work created while on the job, or using workplace materials (computers, etc), is owned by the company.

It goes beyond that. The contract seems to state that any creative project worked on even at home using personal computers while under contract at the company becomes the property of the company.

No wonder anything coming out of Wizards feels like groupthink, honestly. That's because it is: if you basically can't do anything field related outside the company, all your creative juices just mingle with the other employees' and that's that. It ends up in a circle jerk, sooner or later.

Quote from: Benoist;671611No wonder anything coming out of Wizards feels like groupthink, honestly. That's because it is: if you basically can't do anything field related outside the company, all your creative juices just mingle with the other employees' and that's that. It ends up in a circle jerk, sooner or later.

Ayup. Welcome to the world of design by committee. It is usually mediocre and flavorless.

I'm not saying it's not colossally stupid.  I'm just saying that explains why Monte and Bruce would leave, and not "this is a sign Next is shit!"

Quote from: Benoist;671608Yes but that's not just it. ANYTHING creative you do is ipso facto owned by the company. You can use your own computer, never use the company's pencil sharpener or photocopier... anything creative coming out of your brain is owned by the company. Period. You can't do freelance on the side, you can't have an imprint at your own name for side projects, nothing.

This is retarded. As mentioned in Stan!'s post, companies like Blizzard don't do this.

But a lot of others do. I can see their reasoning in some cases. If someone has a full time job at a company, but they have time to produce a number of outside works, it makes you wonder if they are really putting all their efforts in making their employer's products successful. It also closes a possible problem with creations that are actually created at work walking out the door because the employee claims that they created it in their off time.

I suspect employers use these too because terms of NDAs and non-competitive clauses in employment contracts get tossed out frequently.

Big game companies view their projects much the same way as big tech companies. They have some ideas they think are brilliant. They try to protect them. I had to sign an NDA at a 'con recently for a "Design" session - for me, what was discussed made me feel like the NDA was an absurdity, because what has discussed wasn't very valuable to me. But what it was, was definitely gold to company.

While I think its all unfortunate (and while I protect my own IP, I wouldn't pull this crap), the best designers are going to go out, start their own businesses and land on their feet. When I went to PaizoCon earlier this month, I saw and playtested plenty of great third party stuff, like Primeval Thule - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/809579963/primeval-thule also made by ex-WotC'ers. These guys may be suffering a bit having to provide their own health insurance but Id rather see them raising the bar on third party quality.

I'd not put my money on Blizzard not doing that. There are probably reasons why those Hellgate guys left Blizzard rather than release that game under said company's banner. It started with Edison and it'll continue, because it's good money.

Quote from: Benoist;671608Yes but that's not just it. ANYTHING creative you do is ipso facto owned by the company. You can use your own computer, never use the company's pencil sharpener or photocopier... anything creative coming out of your brain is owned by the company. Period. You can't do freelance on the side, you can't have an imprint at your own name for side projects, nothing.

This is retarded. As mentioned in Stan!'s post, companies like Blizzard don't do this.

That is standard for WotC, though. Long ago I was considering writing for Dragon, then I read their Writer's Guidelines. There was a clause in them that states that any submitted material, whether published or not, becomes the intellectual property of WotC to be used however they wish in whatever medium they wish that exists or will exist in the future. If I got a new monster published by them and they decided to create a show in the newly invented smellovision 25 years from now and it makes millions, I'd get nothing because it has been declared WotC intellectual property.

That is corporate America.

Quote from: Benoist;671608Yes but that's not just it. ANYTHING creative you do is ipso facto owned by the company. You can use your own computer, never use the company's pencil sharpener or photocopier... anything creative coming out of your brain is owned by the company. Period. You can't do freelance on the side, you can't have an imprint at your own name for side projects, nothing.

This is retarded. As mentioned in Stan!'s post, companies like Blizzard don't do this.

It's pretty much standard in any company that even vaguely creates anything - I've got a similar clause in my contract, which gives my employers first refusal on anything, iirc (I'm not going to fetch my contract for this discussion).

I'd be bloody surprised if Blizzard really don't have this clause in their employment contracts.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;671609It goes beyond that. The contract seems to state that any creative project worked on even at home using personal computers while under contract at the company becomes the property of the company.

That's
BULLSHIT!

Quote from: Sacrosanct;671615I'm not saying it's not colossally stupid.  I'm just saying that explains why Monte and Bruce would leave, and not "this is a sign Next is shit!"

It depends on whether you think design by committee is shit by definition.

JG