Quote from: aramisBut the real question is, is open licensing valid at all?
It's never been tried in court that I've heard of. But IANAL. Now, DSK has mentioned that it hasn't been tried to his knowledge a few weeks back... and he is an IP lawyer.

The OGL might not survive a lawsuit.

It would survive the lawsuit and deal tremendous and horrible damage not just to WotC, but a shitload of other (and sometimes much larger) IP-holders. If the OGL goes on trial, by proxy so do a lot of other parties, some of whom would have very deep pockets to make sure open source doesn't get squashed.

Not going to happen.

Quote from: ggroy;318838A comparison between the WotC, Paizo, and White Wolf fan site policies.

http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/wizards-fan-site-policy-what-its-good-for/

See Steve Jackson Games for a saner approach-

http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html

Quote from: J Arcane;318834So that's it then?  Wizards is TSR now?  

Does that mean we can ignore them as irrelevant again, just like I did through the entire 1990s?

Yep, been ignoring them since last year.

Quote from: ggroy;318823The insidious paragraph.

Please note that this Fan Site Policy does not allow you to publish, distribute or sell your own free-to-use games, modules or applications for any of Wizards' brands including, but not limited to, Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering. If you want to engage in any of these activities related to Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition, such use is subject to the Game System License

Edit: Hmmm, though going to read the GSL, which I have not done in a long time, it says it excludes websites. So it does in fact say what you think it says.

So you can release a 4e adventure as a free PDF under the GSL, but not a website.

D-U-M-B.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;318839Okay, I promise not to produce anything compatible with or useful for D&D4e, and not to do any free work promoting their game line.

I'll just play other stuff instead. Wouldn't want to soil their intellectual property. Gotta have respect, man.

This seems to be the most appropriate response to the latest WoTC idiocy.

Quote from: aramis;318848Especially since the OGL and SRD are well documented; Wizards withdrawing the SRD doesn't remove the prior releases of it, either.

The SRD is not withdrawn only the d20 trademark license.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srdarchive

Quote from: mhensley;318859See Steve Jackson Games for a saner approach-
 
http://www.sjgames.com/general/online_policy.html

Hey, it's also clearly written, with definitions of terms for lay people and explicit coverage of the most common cases.  That's so unusual for a company policy.

Another deconstruction of the fan site policy (or license).

http://d7.pipemaze.com/blog/2009/08/07/wizards-fan-site-kit-is-not-a-fan-site-policy/

I've only now realized, since its the GSL that forbids putting 4e material on a website of any kind, that this has actually been their policy all along.

This seems really shortsighted to me.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuck;318875I've only now realized, since its the GSL that forbids putting 4e material on a website of any kind, that this has actually been their policy all along.

Or does it only apply to sites that use WotC logos and promo material?


EDIT:

Quote from: ggroy;318874Another deconstruction of the fan site policy (or license).

http://d7.pipemaze.com/blog/2009/08/07/wizards-fan-site-kit-is-not-a-fan-site-policy/

Ah, I see.  So I can still open a 4E slander website, I just can't use the logo.

Quote from: J Arcane;318834So that's it then?  Wizards is TSR now?  

Does that mean we can ignore them as irrelevant again, just like I did through the entire 1990s?

Essentially yes.

Don't make me laugh, guys. Irrelevant? You wish.

They are discussed on this board more by the very people who profess to dislike the new edition of d&d than those who do like it.

hahaha...back when wizards pulled the OOP pdfs I said they'd be sitting there, smoking gun in one hand, bloody hole in one foot grunting "Don't laugh, righty, you're next", and they've pulled the trigger again.

never ceases to amuse

Quote from: Hairfoot;318898Or does it only apply to sites that use WotC logos and promo material?

No, it's not the fan site license that forbids websites.

It's the GSL, which is what would have to allow any use of Wizards material, which specifically lists websites as a type of product you can't make under the GSL.

As I read the license, the GSL only seems to apply to print books and PDFs.

Do I think it would be enforced? No, but it's dumb that it's there in the first place.

Here's section 3 of the GSL:

Quote3. Licensed Products. The license granted in Section 4 is for use solely in connection with Licensee’s publication, distribution, and sale of roleplaying games and roleplaying game supplements that contain the Licensed Materials and are published in a hardcover or soft-cover printed book format or in a single-download electronic book format (such as .pdf), and accessory products to the foregoing roleplaying games and roleplaying game supplements that are not otherwise listed as excluded in Section 5.5
(“Licensed Products”)

Now when you go to the other section it refers to, 5.5, you have this:

Quote5.5 Licensed Products. This License applies solely to Licensed Products as defined in Section 3 and to the specified uses set forth in Section 4. For the avoidance of doubt, and by way of example only, no Licensed Product will (a) include web sites, interactive products, miniatures, or character creators; (b) describe a process for creating a character or applying the effects of experience to a character; (c) use the terms “Core Rules” or “Core Rulebook” or variations thereof on its cover or title, in self-reference or in advertising or marketing thereof; (d) refer to any artwork, imagery or other depiction contained in a Core Rulebook; (e) reprint any material contained in a Core Rulebook except as explicitly provided in Section 4; or (f) be incorporated into another product that is itself not a Licensed Product (such as, by way of example only, a magazine or book compilation).

So as I read this, websites have been verbotten from the beginning, we're just now noticing.

I am still waiting for a single person here, other than Hairfoot and RPGObjects_chuck, to actually read this new fansite license and figure out that it doesn't actually mean what a single person (other than those two guys) in this thread thinks it means.

Here is a hint - if you do not use the art and such that is included in the package, it does not apply to you.  Period.  It is not, in fact, a generalized fansite license or policy.  It's only specific to stuff in the package.  It's a deal they are offering, which you are free to take or leave: here is this artwork and stuff you can use, but you have to agree to this license.  That's it.  If you're not using the package, then you are left with the GSL (or prior licenses) and intellectual property law rights, just like before.

OK, with that in mind, please do continue your end of the world sky is falling uninformed rants and speculations.