Well for what it's worth Pundit... I just heard Tim Poole mention D&D-Gate being this new thing entering the culture war.

So there you go - you've pushed our hobby's steaming turd onto the battlefield of the larger Cultural Shitshow. LOL

Quote from: tenbones;1045694Well for what it's worth Pundit... I just heard Tim Poole mention D&D-Gate being this new thing entering the culture war.

So there you go - you've pushed our hobby's steaming turd onto the battlefield of the larger Cultural Shitshow. LOL

I just Googled Tim Poole. I found an actor I've never heard of and a few LinkedIn profiles. Who is it that you're referring to and why is he important?

Quote from: HappyDaze;1045696I just Googled Tim Poole. I found an actor I've never heard of and a few LinkedIn profiles. Who is it that you're referring to and why is he important?

A doughy-faced buffoon.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1045696I just Googled Tim Poole. I found an actor I've never heard of and a few LinkedIn profiles. Who is it that you're referring to and why is he important?

He's a Youtube journalist type. My impression is he's Liberal-centrist by inclination but he's been getting a lot of attacks from the Control-Left for treating the Right including the Alt Lite fairly in his reports. The control-Left have been calling him a Nazi etc, so he's started criticising them from more of a right-Libertarian/Classical Liberal POV recently.

I don't do Twitter but he's in my Youtube subs, last one from him on the ACLU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX8Pd4aJPOY&t=575s

Quote from: mhensley;1045573I've already quit the hobby - I just read rpg forums for the schadenfreude at this point.  D&D (and rpg's in general) is in the same place as Star Wars is right now.  It's just a hollow impersonation of something I used to love that is being regurgitated by a soulless committee using it as a platform to spread their propaganda.

I hate 5e as much as the next guy, but there are way more RPGs and companies out there.

This is like giving up movies in general because The Last Jedi sucked.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1045658As far as I can tell, nearly all of this 'SJW' hysteria is made up.

In a broad gaming sense, I don't think they hold huge sway over the masses... That said, a lot of the bigger companies are 'sanitizing' their games to make sure they 'fit in' with the SJW agenda. Unfortunately, it can then have a knock-on effect too on some of the smaller game designers who then feel that they should pander to them also and again this leads to self-censorship which is really bad for gaming. People should feel free to create what they want and not give a toss what a few screwheads think.

Another effect, that may not be 'Armageddon' in an overall gaming sense. However, if you are an indie game designer who has to feed their family, then you might very well feel the effects on your income. All it takes is rumors on a forum and some trolling to online stores and 'hey presto' you've got a product line banned or black listed. It gets worse... Throw enough mud at a wall an some of it is sure to stick no matter how false the acusation is. Then you've got artists, publishers and other game designers refusing to work with you. Which sucks if you've got to eek out a living freelancing.

Grimjim made a very good point on his own channel about Drivethru RPG (I'm paraphrasing here). They banned Henticle because of a few complaining trolls but for 12 years before that, they were delighted to take the money.

So I agree with Pundit you've got to take a stance...

Well Sean Patrick Fannon was thoroughly demonized and he is still working in the industry. The only jobs he lost were the ones he left himself out of the shame from his own group turning on him.

Turns out the "SJW" crowd of internet people has no real power outside of those who listen to them, which is becoming fewer and fewer each day because they aren't fun people.

Quote from: S'mon;1045707He's a Youtube journalist type. My impression is he's Liberal-centrist by inclination but he's been getting a lot of attacks from the Control-Left for treating the Right including the Alt Lite fairly in his reports. The control-Left have been calling him a Nazi etc, so he's started criticising them from more of a right-Libertarian/Classical Liberal POV recently.

I don't do Twitter but he's in my Youtube subs, last one from him on the ACLU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX8Pd4aJPOY&t=575s

That about sums him up. He's done some good stuff journalism-wise. One of the few people out there who actually believes in old-school journalism. But he normally covers a lot of political stuff. The mere fact that the words D&D-Gate left his lips... where the RPG universe is light-years away from his normal fare... was shocking.

Quote from: The Exploited.;1045727In a broad gaming sense, I don't think they hold huge sway over the masses... That said, a lot of the bigger companies are 'sanitizing' their games to make sure they 'fit in' with the SJW agenda. Unfortunately, it can then have a knock-on effect too on some of the smaller game designers who then feel that they should pander to them also and again this leads to self-censorship which is really bad for gaming. People should feel free to create what they want and not give a toss what a few screwheads think.

Another effect, that may not be 'Armageddon' in an overall gaming sense. However, if you are an indie game designer who has to feed their family, then you might very well feel the effects on your income. All it takes is rumors on a forum and some trolling to online stores and 'hey presto' you've got a product line banned or black listed. It gets worse... Throw enough mud at a wall an some of it is sure to stick no matter how false the acusation is. Then you've got artists, publishers and other game designers refusing to work with you. Which sucks if you've got to eek out a living freelancing.

Grimjim made a very good point on his own channel about Drivethru RPG (I'm paraphrasing here). They banned Henticle because of a few complaining trolls but for 12 years before that, they were delighted to take the money.

So I agree with Pundit you've got to take a stance...

There is an important distinction between active attacks on table-top roleplaying game players by people on the left, and drift in the norms regarding how race, gender and sexuality are presented in games. When someone jumps out of the bushes and attacks you for no immediate reason you have a reason to react. When you feel fussy because WoC presents a female paladin in plate armor, you are being a dick.

Quote from: tenbones;1045694Well for what it's worth Pundit... I just heard Tim Poole mention D&D-Gate being this new thing entering the culture war.

So there you go - you've pushed our hobby's steaming turd onto the battlefield of the larger Cultural Shitshow. LOL

I'm so glad I never have to see this stuff in the real world. Sub elements of sub elements of a fandom is so insignificant that I bet if I head to the Sentry Box right now and mention D&DGate, no one would have a clue what I was talking about. Mountains and molehills.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1045759There is an important distinction between active attacks on table-top roleplaying game players by people on the left, and drift in the norms regarding how race, gender and sexuality are presented in games. When someone jumps out of the bushes and attacks you for no immediate reason you have a reason to react. When you feel fussy because WoC presents a female paladin in plate armor, you are being a dick.

I'm not sure your 'jump out of the bushes' analogy works all that well given the concerns I've mentioned previously regarding the banning of products and sanitizing RPGs, etc.

I'd agree with you though, anyone who'd complain about a female paladin wearing 'proper armor' is just being a twat...

However, I'd be very skeptical about Hasbro adjusting their marketing strategy for the 'good of the people'. I'd say it's more about economics (IMO). So, on one hand, you could say that they are pandering in order to gain favor with the SJW crowd (Incidentally, I don't consider them actually left-wing but some neuvea political hybrid).

The other point is that creators should feel free to create whatever stuff they want... consumers are also free to vote with their wallets, instead of whining like a rug rat and complaining to drivethru.

Personally, I don't want to go back to 80s style censorship...

The 80's Satanic Panic was mostly made up, too.  Still has an effect on people.

The SJW stuff doesn't happen as much in person because it's more difficult to spout that stuff around a group of normal people.  They tend to look at you as if you are an idiot.  It's easier to ignore such looks when online or in a crowd of fellow travelers.  Also, it is standard Alinsky technique to deny that any such thing is happening while it is happening.

If you nominally, publicly agree with a position (e.g., presenting gay identity in games in a roughly proportional and non judgmental way), but you are upset because of the motives you imagine are behind someone else stating that position, then there is a very good chance you are also a dick.

As for banned products and publishers, I'd have to see an example to understand what you are talking about. Can someone provide a link to a description of something that was booted off of drivethru or an equivalent publisher?

Quote from: Larsdangly;1045776If you nominally, publicly agree with a position (e.g., presenting gay identity in games in a roughly proportional and non judgmental way), but you are upset because of the motives you imagine are behind someone else stating that position, then there is a very good chance you are also a dick.

As for banned products and publishers, I'd have to see an example to understand what you are talking about. Can someone provide a link to a description of something that was booted off of drivethru or an equivalent publisher?

Don't know too many people that publicly state that they are for something and then they are pissed off by someone else agreeing with them. But if you're referring to Hasbro's motives I doubt they give a toss at a corporate level.

Banned products? Did you not read what I said one is hentacle?? Alpha Blue was also banned at one point (it was rescinded after much writing to DThru I believe).

I can't tell that much about these games, but Hentacle's cover looks like a riff on tentacle porn and the review of Alpha Blue sounds like it is an extended play on sexual innuendo and jokes. I don't think anyone should be prevented by the law from publishing either of these things, but no one can assume a right to have any private company accept your product as part of the things they put up on their shelf (physically or digitally speaking). I don't really know drivethru's policies about sexual material, but there is a reasonable case to be made that these are simply products that this company doesn't want associated with its brand. How is that any different from the fact that if I want to publish a collection of pornographic images or erotica I need to either put it out there myself or find a publisher who focuses on that kind of material?