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I am a bit mystified by the healing proposal. It seems like it doesnt satisfy anyone (the people who like 4E style healing seem to like proportionate heals, and this tosses that, the people like me who want slow natural healing get a form of regeneration). Maybe I am missing something here. It isn't a dealbreaker for me, because it looks like they are setting it up so you can adjust the rates, but this design choice really has me scratching my head.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;631602Here is the latest legends and lore:

L&L


I am a bit mystified by the healing proposal. It seems like it doesnt satisfy anyone (the people who like 4E style healing seem to like proportionate heals, and this tosses that, the people like me who want slow natural healing get a form of regeneration). Maybe I am missing something here. It isn't a dealbreaker for me, because it looks like they are setting it up so you can adjust the rates, but this design choice really has me scratching my head.

Brendan, I think its 1hp/level/hour so it is proportional. Also you can change that to /4hours or /8hours of rest.

But a healing rate of Level HP per hour is a ridiculous idea ..... how can you track the bookkeeping, how can you possibly plan adventures its crazy .....

The 1 hp per level per hour is there so that no matter the level, characters are healing the same proportion of hp (roughly) regardless of level.  But it seems as if it's not much different than get back to full hp after every long rest.  I say that because what's going to happen is that players are just going to figure out how many hours they need to get back to full hp.  That's one knock I have against per hour healing.  I'd much prefer per day.

Quote from: jibbajibba;631606Brendan, I think its 1hp/level/hour so it is proportional. Also you can change that to /4hours or /8hours of rest.

But a healing rate of Level HP per hour is a ridiculous idea ..... how can you track the bookkeeping, how can you possibly plan adventures its crazy .....

You are right, i completely missed that.

For me this isnt a bookeeping issue. I can handle tracking hp recovery at an hourly rate. But if its 1 hp per level per hour, that presents serious believability issues form. Shifting it to 8 hour periods isnt so bad though. Still, if he is thinking of doing this, then it makes me wonder why all the hooplah about clerics last L&L. If you can heal you level per hour, there isnt nearly the need for clerical healing. I guess he may have been speaking more about in combat healing or something. To me this is baically giving pcs regeneration.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;631610You are right, i completely missed that.

For me this isnt a bookeeping issue. I can handle tracking hp recovery at an hourly rate. But if its 1 hp per level per hour, that presents serious believability issues form. Shifting it to 8 hour periods isnt so bad though. Still, if he is thinking of doing this, then it makes me wonder why all the hooplah about clerics last L&L. If you can heal you level per hour, there isnt nearly the need for clerical healing. I guess he may have been speaking more about in combat healing or something. To me this is baically giving pcs regeneration.

It also means wounded is not a state you can simulate unless PCs have a ton of hit points.  Waiting a day should regenerate any reasonable amount of hit points from any current edition.  Even more freaky, low hit point characters heal faster than high hit point characters.  

It's an odd system.

A houserule would have to be in place for high hp classes vs low hp classes though.  It doesn't make sense that a fighter would take four times as long to heal from the same severity of hp loss as the magic user.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;631609The 1 hp per level per hour is there so that no matter the level, characters are healing the same proportion of hp (roughly) regardless of level.  But it seems as if it's not much different than get back to full hp after every long rest.

I tried something like this back in the late 1970s when I first converted from the standard D&D hit point system to the hit point/body point system (where HP represented fatigue and BP represented severe injuries) I've used pretty much ever since.

Both myself and all of my players found tracking fatigue recovery on a per turn basis was way too much bookkeeping. We then tried a per hour HP recovery rate, it was still far more bookkeeping that either myself or most of my players were interested in. Going to all HP recover after a night's sleep worked much better -- no need for constantly have to keep track of how much time has passed and how many HP recovered during active play.  Recovering HP only once per day also helped prevent spellcasters from becoming too powerful (HP is used as spell points in my system).

Quote from: Votan;631612It also means wounded is not a state you can simulate unless PCs have a ton of hit points.  Waiting a day should regenerate any reasonable amount of hit points from any current edition.  Even more freaky, low hit point characters heal faster than high hit point characters.  

It's an odd system.

I agree that hp cant be physical damage if they do this. At least not unless you houserule it to a daily recovery rate.

Regeneration has always been a supernatural/magical effect in the game.

If PCs can do this on an hourly basis it is kind of not that special anymore. Trolls are big and nasty and they can regeneate. Well fuck them, so can we!

Rings of regeneration will now get tossed into the disenchant pile to be turned into magical poop.

While they're at it, all PCs should just be able to fly too just because. :rolleyes:

Like I said in the cleric healing thread when I posted exactly this as an alternative option it's not a lot of bookkeeping.
The players rest for a couple of hours they get back some HPs becuase it has to berest you are not doing it on a turn by turn basis unless you want that degree of granularity.
Doing as a overnight is just the 3e heal rate ie level HP per days rest as 8 hours is a night's sleep/rest.

I have been running a variant of this where you heal 10% of your HP every hour for 15+ years. Really its not a big deal but it changes the paradigm a lot.

Now I did it not becuase i wanted my PCs to be super heroes , in fact quite the oposite I wanted there to be less magic and a more mundane world, so I paired it with a wound system where each PC had 4 wounds + con bonus. in parallel  to their HP.
As D&D next has been discussed I have decided to change this to 1d6 HP at 0 level and that sits under your HP and acts as wounds that heal at 1 per week and give you -2 (-10%) each on all rolls.
A cure light by the way (if you can find a priest to heal you which is v rare) heals a wound or 8 hp. and so on.
In my system you could only absorb 30% of your HP from any one physical blow. So a guy with 50hp could take the first 15 hits of any damage off his HP the rest went to wounds.

Now that is too complex for anything but an advanced option. I think that the d6 at 0 level that act differently once the rest of the HP are gone or just using the 0to -10hp as Wounded might be workable .

the physical damage thing in D&D is already so abstracted that its hard to counter a new healing paradigm with a but wounds shouldn;t heal that fast. After all the 1e system that meant that a 15th level fighter on 1% of their HP was totally unaffected by their wounds but took 31 days to heal , whilst a 2 hp wizard who was on deaths door was back at full health by thursday morning.

Neither system is perfect both have logical anomolies so its really about play style and here Mearls has a core rule with an optional 'dial' that lets you play a rapid heal or slow heal game. A good compromise if you ask me.

I might have imagined it - or put it forward as something i would welcome, but i thought that the hit dice mechanic was already looking after natural healing?

That way, wizards heal slower on average than fighters (MU with d4 hd and fighters with d10 hd).

Quote from: Exploderwizard;631618Regeneration has always been a supernatural/magical effect in the game.

If PCs can do this on an hourly basis it is kind of not that special anymore. Trolls are big and nasty and they can regeneate. Well fuck them, so can we!

Rings of regeneration will now get tossed into the disenchant pile to be turned into magical poop.

While they're at it, all PCs should just be able to fly too just because. :rolleyes:

but there is a dial you can set to every 24 hours so .... meh

We knew that D&D New was going to have some core mechanics that were going to be variable it was the only way it could appeal to the range of player they hope to.

As the DM you can under this rule set healing rates to whatever you like for your world.
What is there not to like?

Quote from: One Horse Town;631621I might have imagined it - or put it forward as something i would welcome, but i thought that the hit dice mechanic was already looking after natural healing?

That way, wizards heal slower on average than fighters (MU with d4 hd and fighters with d10 hd).

I remembered that too which i why I thought they would go with HD per hour (or per day or per turn or whatever you like)  as a standard.
Maybe HD will only be for healing spells and effects like potions.

Quote from: Mike MearlsMy preference is simply to allow a small amount of healing: 1 hit point per level per hour of complete rest. An 8-hour rest would restore most characters' hit points.

*sigh*

Quote from: Mike MearlsThe nice thing about this rule is that it is very easy to change it to match your campaign. You can simply speed up or slow down healing. If your group lacks a cleric and you prefer lots of combat, you can allow healing at 5-minute intervals. For a more lethal campaign, change the healing rate to 4 or 8 hours. By changing one factor, you can make a significant change to the tone and feel of your game.

"If you don't like it, you can house rule it."

True.

How about the modules which will use this baseline of healing and will assume there's a recuperation of all the party's HPs after an 8 hour rest? I'm going to have to house rule them too? Oh, you mean to tell me you are going to use the same encounter format you did before, with fight fight fight regen fight fight fight as the basis of design?

Hm.

And what about all the twink that's sure to follow in other rules supplements that your designers will build based on that baseline of the core rules? Oh, I can house rule that too... right. My mistake.

Hm.

Quote from: Benoist;631625*sigh*


"If you don't like it, you can house rule it."

True.

How about the modules which will use this baseline of healing and will assume there's a recuperation of all the party's HPs after an 8 hour rest? I'm going to have to house rule them? Oh, you mean to tell me you are going to use the same encounter format you did before, with fight fight fight regen fight fight fight as the basis of design? And what about all the twink that's sure to follow in other rules supplements that your designers will build based on that baseline of the core rules? Oh, I can house rule that too... right. My mistake.

I think you're making this more complicated than it has to be.  Also, your response raised my eyebrows a bit.  Haven't we been saying all this time that all the more complex rules we don't like should be optional?  Couldn't the 4e proponents then use your exact same argument against you that you're using here?  I.e., if the "core" game is designed with stricter healing, and they want to play with healing surges and whatnot, will they have to houserule the whole module?

Personally I don't think it will be that big of a deal.  I mean, back in the day, modules were built around the assumption that you'd have at least one cleric and plenty of healing potions, but we were able to play just fine without them with little modification.  You just adjusted your play style to that which is more cautious.