Quote from: jeff37923 on April 18, 2021, 08:17:56 PM
As to why many people hate storygames, it was the constant incessant shilling by storygames advocates that finally pissed people off.

The important thing to remember is how storygames per se are not "evil" (*) and if you play them you do not become an evil person. Some RPG players were dissatisfied by the traditional way of playing, came up with new ideas and, as a side result, enriched the hobby.

I and my group played "Prime Time Adventures" and "Lacuna Part I" and we had a lot of fun (exp. with Lacuna: truly a fertile ground for creativity). It was nice to try different ways of playing. We, of course, also play "Mansions of Madness" and "7th Continent" (the boardgames with a strong storytelling component).

The problem with storygames was the absolute fanaticism by an ample portion of those who created/played them. Others are able to tell the story better than me. I will only say that the phenomenon led me to study, out of curiosity, similar things, like Scientology and deprogramming. Yes, it was that-level bad.

Italy was badly hit. Some "prophets" took root over here and they (and the followers) spoke only with absolutes. Basically, they always tried to justify the desire of others to play traditional RPGs as the result of brain damage, mind control, social pressure... "Your players don't like RPGs! They are forced to play them because they fear that they will be excluded from the group!" To them a simple...

"Well, what we want to do now?" "Why don't we try 'Achtung Cthulhu'? It seems cool!" "Everybody agrees? Fine, Federico is the keeper, session 0 next Saturday!"

...Couldn't exist. Either you lied or the players were "forced" to agree due to various mental/social disorders.

These "Forgites" were so hated over here that, back in the day (early 2010), I found myself savagely attacked on their Italian forum for saying: "Listen, I'm glad that you found your way of playing, and some of your games are cool, but it is only a way of playing..." and at the same time savagely attacked on this forum for saying "Let's not throw out the baby with the water: some games are objectively cool, a different experience is always welcome, and this is what really matters..." No one, as you can see, can claim sole ownership of stupidity .

(*) Because, of course, "Evil Games" are bad game design... 

Ron Edwards definitely set himself up as a cult leader, using the standard techniques that inculcate a circle of slavishly devoted fanatics (while driving off everyone else). There's a standard modus operandi; I got a bit of a shock experiencing it on Ron's Forge forums way back, but it was a good learning experience as I was then able to recognise the techniques when I came across them again later, eg the alt-righter Vox Day does the same thing on his blog.

See, when someone says 'storygames' my mind immediately blipverts to 'diceless' like Amber, or Nobilis.

To me, it's all improv, with some dice for an added bit of random chance. If I'm laughing, facepalming, have a deranged grin, or cracking my knuckles, it's a good game. I can wring entertainment out of all but the most obdurate systems.

(The deranged grin comes out a lot in the D&D game I'm running, especially when the wild mage starts casting a spell.)