Quote from: jhkim;1080169Cool to hear, Omega.

So, if someone were running a game set in Cahokia, what part would be most interesting to you?  I am now thinking of having a game set in a version of Cahokia with a swashbuckling theme, where the PCs are members of a force of royal guards parallel to musketeers. It would be set around 1200, just as the palisades are being erected and there is growing danger of assault from enemy forces. So there would be some missions out to deal with problems, plus probably some political intrigue in the big city. I think I will have a religious figure parallel to Cardinal Richelieu in opposition to the king and queen, who runs the Chunkey games. And there would be Chunkey matches instead of duels.

The sources on that culture is full of analyses of human sacrifice, which was apparently done on a rather grand scale, at least sometimes. Would you include this? It would almost seem odd not to mention it.

Quote from: Trond;1080396The sources on that culture is full of analyses of human sacrifice, which was apparently done on a rather grand scale, at least sometimes. Would you include this? It would almost seem odd not to mention it.

I can't answer for jhkim, but if it were me, I certainly would. In fact, I would likely highlight it in some way. Not only is it consistent with evidence, it's also dramatic, and in some cases rather mysterious. Drama and mystery are good things in an rpg.

Quote from: Zirunel;1080398I can't answer for jhkim, but if it were me, I certainly would. In fact, I would likely highlight it in some way. Not only is it consistent with evidence, it's also dramatic, and in some cases rather mysterious. Drama and mystery are good things in an rpg.

And it could also add another good thing that I have found to be very effective in RPGs: horror and dread

Quote from: Trond;1080404And it could also add another good thing that I have found to be very effective in RPGs: horror and dread

Yeah totally. Unless your group are Tekumel players, in which case performing human sacrifice may just be their day job, what they do at the temple between adventures. Also known as a "long rest."

Quote from: SHARK;1080349Greetings!

I used to have a friend of mine that was an experienced big-game hunter. Every year, he would take a hunting trip to Africa. He explained that unlike the vast majority of animals here in North America, which tend to run away from hunters during a confrontation, he said that animals in Africa are far more aggressive, and extremely dangerous. He further explained that many animals in Africa, for example, Elephant, Rhino, Hippo, Water Buffalo, Lion, Wild Boars, amongst others, when they are shot, instead of fleeing, they customarily charge you, enraged, seeking to kill you and take you out with them, even if they are likely to die. He recounted several stories of such animals trampling, goring, or biting members of the hunting expedition.

I would think that when hunting Pleistocene Mega animals, that they would have a similar aggressive response.

Interestingly, of all animals in the world, in current times, Hippos kill and eat more people than any other animal. I saw figures that said Hippos kill over 1200 people every year. Hippos are known to be absolutely fearless. I also saw a video of a large crocodile approaching a young Wildebeast trying to swim to shore in an African river. The nearby Hippo didn't like it, and was pissed off that the Crocodile was entering the area. The Hippo went all slow at first towards the Crocodile, then rushed the Crocodile in a blur of water, biting the Crocodile and throwing the Crocodile around like a helpless, ragdoll. LOL. The Crocodile was huge, too. The Crocodile never knew what hit him, with the Hippo chomping him like a fucking train! The Hippo stood there, looking at the Wildebeast, who scampered gratefully to the safety of the riverbank.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

There was an African lion hunt video where a group of several men, professional hunters and native guides armed with rifles, wounded a lion and were trailing it, only to come upon their own tracks...the lion was hunting them.  Eventually cornering it, it charged, wounded, and every man fired, missing, except the one guy the lion charged, who got a lucky shot off.  The lion dropped dead a foot away from the guy like something out of a movie.

Sure, a group of Zulu hunters, with spears, possibly would have been in less danger, but the speed and strength of an enraged animal cannot be understated.

We know, generally speaking, man wins through intelligence, what we don't know is how many got maimed or killed in the process.  There's a reason for using a Buffalo Jump instead of a spear formation.

Quote from: jhkimSo, if someone were running a game set in Cahokia, what part would be most interesting to you?

Quote from: Omega;1080262A city based campaign could go about anywhere really. Theres likely to be some political jockying and possibly some religious jockying too. How is the population supported? Farmmands? Trade? If trade. How secure are the trade routes?

Theres also the land itself. How hostile is it? Are there wolves, boar or bears in the area? An organized pack of the larger wolves can be a serious threat. A bear, especially the bigger ones like a grizzly can be devastating if they get on the rampage. Or are all the threats from people, either internal or external?

From what I understand, the population is supported by surrounding farmlands growing corn - supplemented by fishing, hunting, berry-picking, etc.  Still, there would also be a trade network - particularly along the Mississippi. In the time period I'm thinking of, though, there were palisades being built around Cahokia - so it was apparently threatened by large-scale warfare or at least raids.

So I'd have a threatening enemy country - probably with religious differences - on the borders. I'm thinking trade down south, and threatening Northmen of some sort - likened to vikings, since they have a less urban culture and are probably raiding on the fringes of the city-state's territory.

I'd keep odd animal encounters in mind for occasional spice - but usually I find human enemies are more interesting than the local animals (bears and wildcats) unless we go into fantasy. There could be a killer bear scenario with supernatural overtones, like werewolf stories. Also, that could be like "Brotherhood of the Wolf" and maybe its a person driving or imitating a bear.

Quote from: Trond;1080396The sources on that culture is full of analyses of human sacrifice, which was apparently done on a rather grand scale, at least sometimes. Would you include this? It would almost seem odd not to mention it.

Yes, there seems to have been a mass sacrifice done upon the death of a king, with coordinated burial. The changing over of a king to a new king might be something to have happen at the start of the campaign. I like the idea of a young new king and queen, with an older scheming religious advisor (i.e. the Richelieu figure). Having a huge burial ceremony with sacrifices might help connect the game to archeology, which sounds like a good connection to emphasize at the start.

Of course it would have to be fictionalized since anthropologists don't know the true significance - but I'd probably make it similar to what was done by Chinese emperors, giving them a bunch of servants in the afterlife via burial.

Outside of the campaign-starting incident, though, I don't think sacrifice will come up. Cahokia wasn't like Aztecs and their constant raids and sacrifices. The victims weren't even outsiders - they were locals, though possibly peasants or slaves - which would fit with the Chinese emperor model.

Quote from: jhkim;1080869Yes, there seems to have been a mass sacrifice done upon the death of a king, with coordinated burial. The changing over of a king to a new king might be something to have happen at the start of the campaign. I like the idea of a young new king and queen, with an older scheming religious advisor (i.e. the Richelieu figure). Having a huge burial ceremony with sacrifices might help connect the game to archeology, which sounds like a good connection to emphasize at the start.

Of course it would have to be fictionalized since anthropologists don't know the true significance - but I'd probably make it similar to what was done by Chinese emperors, giving them a bunch of servants in the afterlife via burial.

Outside of the campaign-starting incident, though, I don't think sacrifice will come up. Cahokia wasn't like Aztecs and their constant raids and sacrifices. The victims weren't even outsiders - they were locals, though possibly peasants or slaves - which would fit with the Chinese emperor model.

Cool. Given what appears to be different residential "wards," especially outside the palisade, and the hints of genetically or ethnically diverse population, I'd be tempted to make Cahokia a diverse and maybe factionalized city (e.g. most inhabitants may be "locals" in the sense of being long-term residents, but need not all be of ethnically local descent), but yeah, Cahokia is so unique there are a lot of ways to run with it.

Quote from: jhkim;1080869Yes, there seems to have been a mass sacrifice done upon the death of a king, with coordinated burial. The changing over of a king to a new king might be something to have happen at the start of the campaign. I like the idea of a young new king and queen, with an older scheming religious advisor (i.e. the Richelieu figure). Having a huge burial ceremony with sacrifices might help connect the game to archeology, which sounds like a good connection to emphasize at the start.

GM: "OK folks, the king is dead, and his family has put YOU in charge of finding the most beautiful virgins to sacrifice and follow him in the afterlife. This is a great honor, how do you go about this task?"

Players:  :eek:  :eek:   :eek:

Quote from: Trond;1081027GM: "OK folks, the king is dead, and his family has put YOU in charge of finding the most beautiful virgins to sacrifice and follow him in the afterlife. This is a great honor, how do you go about this task?"

Players:  :eek:  :eek:   :eek:

Yeah, I expect that would go over about as well as being called on to be medieval European torturers.

Some historically accurate details don't go over well with most players. It's one thing to establish that elements like slavery, torture, and sacrifice exist in the setting - it's another to have the player characters recruited to being an active part of them. Personally, I've had PCs with some historical attitudes - like my Agrikan priest in Harn who was enthusiastic about ritual torture - but that is very rare among players in my experience.

So I would keep things like that in the background. We establish that it exists, but it's not detailed in play.

Quote from: jhkim;1081102Yeah, I expect that would go over about as well as being called on to be medieval European torturers.

Is not that a job upgrade in the original Warhammer FRP? :cool: