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Author Topic: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.  (Read 1276 times)

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2021, 03:58:31 PM »
So I started with the Red Box, quickly moved to AD&D, Star Wars, and TMNT and other Palladium games, then GURPS became my system of choice, along with HERO 5th, D&D 3.0 comes along and I embraced it fully because of ALL THE OPTIONS! SFB and ASL are two of my favorite games, so the complexity was super appealing. Now, though...I like Labyrinth Lord, Castles & Crusades, and am really starting to think something like Swords and Wizardry or other sorts of simple "white box" games are what I'd rather play. I don't think this is unusual, honestly. The more invested you get in a hobby, the more you start to try out all the possibilities and embrace the complex parts of everything. But at some point you remember why you started in the first place and that initial introduction becomes what you really want after all.

Shasarak

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2021, 04:43:01 PM »
After creating a fresh Level 3 Multiclass 3.5 Edition Character this week;  I am stricken by the excitement I felt about all the cool things my PC could do, but then the disgust I felt at the thought of having that level of depth and detail to consider for everything in the game.  Who can reasonably remember all of that finite detail?  I play games to relax, not to obsess over.

I like it, and I don't like it.  I could never run it RAW.  I'd forget too many rules.

Sounds like you would be a good fit for playing in my game.  My Players dont bother to remember the rules either.
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Jam The MF

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2021, 05:37:25 PM »
After creating a fresh Level 3 Multiclass 3.5 Edition Character this week;  I am stricken by the excitement I felt about all the cool things my PC could do, but then the disgust I felt at the thought of having that level of depth and detail to consider for everything in the game.  Who can reasonably remember all of that finite detail?  I play games to relax, not to obsess over.

I like it, and I don't like it.  I could never run it RAW.  I'd forget too many rules.

Sounds like you would be a good fit for playing in my game.  My Players dont bother to remember the rules either.


Ha!!!
I need you to roll a perception check.

Jam The MF

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2021, 05:43:48 PM »
Melee PC: "I swing at it with the sword".
DM: Roll your attack.  If you hit, roll your damage.
Caster PC: "I cast 1 of my 3 spells for today".
DM: The target fails its magic resistance.  Roll your damage.

That, is quick and simple.  I like to run games like that.
I need you to roll a perception check.

Jam The MF

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2021, 06:13:05 AM »
OK, I put the 3.5 PHB back on the shelf......

The 3.0 PHB is noticeably thinner, than the 3.5 PHB.

I then cracked open the 3.0 PHB, and started creating an adventuring party of the Core 4 Classes, all at Level 1.  Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard.

I'm using a Stat Array of 16, 15, 14, 13, 10, 8; created by rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest die, 6 times.  I'm going to check out 3.0 specifically, in greater depth.

I've selected Race and Class; and I have all the Modifiers worked out.  Now I just need to dedicate some time to selecting feats, spells, and skills.


« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 06:34:52 PM by Jam The MF »
I need you to roll a perception check.

Batman

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2021, 05:49:29 PM »
Maybe I'm in the minority, but most of the content is pretty easy to grasp in terms of use and execution, even in 4e where you're given a lot initially up front. Specifically for 3.5, the only thing that I felt was really exhausting (as a PC) were Summons and all their stats/turns of druids when you were taking into account the Animal Companion and Summon Nature's Ally spells.

I dunno, maybe I just got good at consolidating stats of PCs on Index Cards.
" I'm Batman "

Jam The MF

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2021, 08:02:41 PM »
After investing time creating a 4 PC adventuring party, for D&D 3.0; I realize there's no way in Haydes as a DM, that I'd invest that much time into creating NPC's.

Thus, i wouldn't be running any 3rd Edition derivative the way it was intended.

At least with Pathfinder; I could keep a copy of the NPC Codex at the table, and riff off of it.
I need you to roll a perception check.

SHARK

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2021, 09:06:31 PM »
After investing time creating a 4 PC adventuring party, for D&D 3.0; I realize there's no way in Haydes as a DM, that I'd invest that much time into creating NPC's.

Thus, i wouldn't be running any 3rd Edition derivative the way it was intended.

At least with Pathfinder; I could keep a copy of the NPC Codex at the table, and riff off of it.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Yeah, the time-consumption of character creation--even for NPC's--is kind of a "Hidden Flaw" that may be overlooked initially, but which grows exponentially over time, of course dependent on the number of characters to be created, but also their character class level, and whatever campaign significance they may have.

Imagine sitting down as the DM, and setting out to create three NPC 6-member adventuring parties in which to populate an upcoming dungeon or wilderness adventure that the player characters are going to be getting into. Say, one NPC party is Level 6, one party is Level 8, and one party is Level 10.

There were times when I looked at a *stack* of what? 8 or 10 game books for making characters. Races, Classes, Prestige Classes, Skills, Special Features, Magical Spells, Magical Items, and Mundane Gear. With all of that stuff scattered over the 8 or 10 relevant books.

I loved D&D 3E for many years, but...damn, you know? ;D

Then, of course, I had 6 players. Imagine how much time--and how many books each of them wanted to consult--to level up their primary characters, and two or three Henchmen characters *each*? ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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Batman

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2021, 02:06:48 AM »
After investing time creating a 4 PC adventuring party, for D&D 3.0; I realize there's no way in Haydes as a DM, that I'd invest that much time into creating NPC's.

Thus, i wouldn't be running any 3rd Edition derivative the way it was intended.

At least with Pathfinder; I could keep a copy of the NPC Codex at the table, and riff off of it.

There are quick programs you can find to create easy NPCs for your games Here

And my personal que of NPCs for 3.5/Pathfinder,  4E, and 5E found on Candlekeep called Forgotten Realms NPC Generator

I like making them, so feel free to ask what your campaign needs or pilfer from the premade ones
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 08:19:03 PM by Batman »
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Jam The MF

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2021, 10:07:19 AM »
After investing time creating a 4 PC adventuring party, for D&D 3.0; I realize there's no way in Haydes as a DM, that I'd invest that much time into creating NPC's.

Thus, i wouldn't be running any 3rd Edition derivative the way it was intended.

At least with Pathfinder; I could keep a copy of the NPC Codex at the table, and riff off of it.

There are quick programs you can find to create easy NPCs for your games Here

And my personal que of NPCs for 3.5/Pathfinder,  4E, and 5E found on Candlekeep called Forgotten Realms NPC Generator

I like making them, so feel free to ask what your campaign needs or pilfer from the premade ones


Very cool!!!  Thank you.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 01:02:03 PM by Jam The MF »
I need you to roll a perception check.

Shasarak

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2021, 03:35:17 PM »
The DnD system that took the longest to create characters was probably 2e Skills and Powers.
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Reckall

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2021, 07:43:58 PM »
I used (and still use) eTools to quickly create NPC and monsters for 3.5E. I'm told that it is a bad program. Given my decade + long positive experience with it, I usually just nod.
For every idiot who denounces Ayn Rand as "intellectualism" there is an excellent DM who creates a "Bioshock" adventure.

Ghostmaker

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2021, 08:24:36 PM »
I used (and still use) eTools to quickly create NPC and monsters for 3.5E. I'm told that it is a bad program. Given my decade + long positive experience with it, I usually just nod.
Any tool that speeds up your process and doesn't introduce errors is a good tool.

Chris24601

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Re: n Observation; going from older style TSR D&D, to 3.0 Forward.
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2021, 07:56:07 AM »
Just as an aside; unless you’re going to be fighting them (or with them), you don’t really need to actually stat an NPC. Just assign some numbers in relevant skills to look good if those are even needed.

Then, if you do need combat stats, just pick a monster that sorta fights how you think the NPC and refluff all the descriptions of it (ex. claw/claw/bite becomes rapier, main gauche, rapier and their thick hide becomes a brigandine).

Also, for most combat only NPCs you can largely skip feats and skills unless they’re absolutely critical to your concept.

All of the above is actually built into 4E (5e backpedals a bit, but only a bit) so this obsession with fully statted everythings was pretty much only a 3e thing.