Quote from: Opaopajr;778748This would be the part of Golden Girls where someone reached for the 'cheesecake of peace'.

Those women would have been 900 pounds each if they actually ate all that cheesecake.

Quote from: CRKrueger;778745Oh there's lot of passive-aggressive purple shitheads here, but Geezer ain't one of 'em.  He's a self-aggrandizing, self-promoting grumpy-ass shithead, but that's ok, he'll be the first to tell you so.

And in this instance, he's 100% right Marley.  There are threads where you talk about 5e in a positive light, and then there's the rest of the threads where you hunt down any criticism of the game system and yell at everyone until they go away.

Grow the fuck up already or get the fuck out, this shit is getting beyond tiring.

I am going to say things about 5e you will like.
I am going to say things about 5e you will not like.
There is nothing you can do to stop me in either case.
Attempt to talk and we'll talk.
Throw out some jackass version of "Go Away Old Guy, nyah nyah nyah!" and I'll say more things you don't like.
Rinse and Repeat, what fun.

Say whatever you believe or like but that won't stop me from doing exactly the same. And guess what? Nobody will get hurt for real given it's a game last time I looked.

Quote from: Opaopajr;778746I really need these flumph stats for 5e...

But, does that mean Wild Mages are ok with you.

My experience is about half the players have the book for whatever we are playing. I've played plenty of campaigns where I was part of the half who never bought the book...and I have a freaking huge RPG library.

Quote from: Old Geezer;778734and I've said all along any new edition of a game I play has to meet the burden of proof of being better than what I have already.

If the D&D name wasn't on the cover, we'd never see 1/100th of these threads. The game mechanics don't support the excitement whatsoever.  

My "burden of proof" is different. I am less interested in a new edition "being better" as I am interested in a new actual play experience that's lots of fun. 5e utterly failed the fun test for me and my crew. FOR US it's a WTF compromise clone for people want "old school", but the kiddie coaster version.

OG, if you haven't checked out DCC RPG yet, I highly recommend checking it out. That's been the most interesting fantasy RPG I've played in the last few years.

Quote from: Old Geezer;778731Oh, Crom's hairy nutsack, it "quotes from D&D novels."

So D&D finally HAS disappeared up its own ass.

Really?  There are a few flavor quotes at the start of a few chapters, and that's where you draw the line?

Quote from: Old Geezer;778731Oh, Crom's hairy nutsack, it "quotes from D&D novels."

So D&D finally HAS disappeared up its own ass.

It did that when they started writing D&D novels, not when they started quoting them.

Quote from: Old Geezer;778497Well, maybe it's down to different player groups, then.  Part of it is, of course, the fact that OD&D has been out of print for a long time, but the vast majority of people I've played with all over the country in the last 42 years don't even ask about the possibility of getting the rules.  I just finished an almost year long game of Dungeon World as a player, and nobody but the ref had the rules.  My Minnesota group is playing two or three different FATE games, and three people out of nine have even bothered to look at the rules.

My experience is obviously not universal, but yours may not be either.

More or less my experience as a GM, but not as a player.

I ran Star Frontiers and aside from character generation the players never looked at the rulebooks once as far as I know. Same with Gamma World and BX D&D. AD&D they would usually have the PHB, but past that again as far as I know they did not delve into the system. That was my job as the DM.

As a player though in Torg, Rifts, and Shadowrun I ended up having to learn the rules more in depth. Especially Shadowrun which has alot of little nuances that can trip you up if you arent aware. Werewolf and especially Gurps were the worst for that though. I have yet to meet a WW or Gurps player who didnt know the system inside and out.

Quote from: Old Geezer;778731Oh, Crom's hairy nutsack, it "quotes from D&D novels."

So D&D finally HAS disappeared up its own ass.

I think that is because they are using characters from the novels as examples during character generation at points. Bruenor, Tika and Artemis come to mind without firing up Basic. Also I recall they used a Crystal Shard quote for the intro to Dwaves, Bruenor again. I think they used a Dragonlance Goldmoon quote for elves, The halfling from Crystal Shard whos name eludes me at the moment for Halflings, and I have no clue who they quoted for the Human entry.

So far its limited to just race and background. If it were littering the whole damn book Id be less thrilled as it starts to feel like product placement ads. So far its being used in moderation so I personally dont see yet a reason to get vexed.

Quote from: Omega;778782and I have no clue who they quoted for the Human entry.

It's from Daughter of the Drow by Elaine Cunningham. It doesn't actually reference a specific human.

I don't see a problem with quoting from a dnd novel.

I would care a lot more what the quote says, than the source.

Quote from: Bill;778787I don't see a problem with quoting from a dnd novel.

I would care a lot more what the quote says, than the source.

Agreed.

Though the quote for the elf entry was the weakest. Description of architecture. whoooo... :rolleyes:

Quote from: Opaopajr;778746I really need these flumph stats for 5e...

    September. They'll be in the Monster Manual.

    (When they confirmed that flumphs and modrons were in the MM, it was a key sign for me that they were really catering to the lapsed fans. Now if they include a nude succubus, they'll have the hat trick.)

I suspect if I ever write the microlite D&D I have kicking around in the back of my head, OG would give it a shot.

But, yeah, lots of rules and pages to pour through YET AGAIN is... tiring and dumb.

Quote from: Old Geezer;778731Oh, Crom's hairy nutsack, it "quotes from D&D novels."

So D&D finally HAS disappeared up its own ass.

Bah!

We all know 99% of the novels suck Croms Hairy Heavybags, but I take the long view: these pieces of shit exist. No sense in denying them. It's like I have to grudgingly admit the douchebags that are in this hobby with us are part of our larger tribe of gamers. I don't have to like it (I don't) but I'll accept it.

Sure I have choke down... "The Seven Sisters", "Dalamar drinking Coke with Mordenkainen and Elminster", ugh... "Elminster"... "Drizzt Do'Batman", "Tasslehoff the pancake" and all the other stupid shit.

(man... I think I just velched copping to all that)

... but there are a few moments in some of the books that were entertaining and even insightful towards a couple of things that even tossed rules-assumptions on their head (Menzoberanzzan in the original Drizzt books was not half-bad), but I accept these artifacts as being part of the "canon", even though I choose not to use any of it.

I can see where Grubb is coming from. I don't agree with all of it, but I get it and accept it.

Quote from: Opaopajr;778746I really need these flumph stats for 5e...

Oh noes, they are secret!