"Murder-hobos"

Simlasa · November 02, 2011, 03:49:27 PM

I've only played in a couple of groups that were 'kill them and take their stuff'... even when I ran a short CoC campaign that focused on 'murderous hobos'... but I've played LOTS of video game 'RPGS' that seem to play like that (maybe cause that's what they're best at?).
I've been playing World Of Warcraft again lately and the primacy it places on 'loot' seems to reinforce that type of play.

Surprisingly (to me) the kids I'm running games for don't play that way at all. I've yet to have one of them kill for the sake of killing or ask to loot a corpse...

Actually... I kind of wish our Deadlands games had a bit more of the 'murder hobo' to them...

Serious Paul · November 02, 2011, 03:53:35 PM

I've seen some people this applies to. Does it accurately describe everyone who games? I hope not, and I think not!

gonster · November 02, 2011, 04:00:51 PM

Gold Hungry Murderhoboes is the best punk band name I've ever heard -- that is all.

daniel_ream · November 02, 2011, 04:04:03 PM

The murderhobo epithet applies to the vast majority of the TTRPG sessions I have played in, run, and observed other people playing in the larger local community.

While it's entirely a function of player maturity, it would be disingenuous to ignore the fact that killing things and taking their stuff was the only thing that AD&D1E (the basis for most people's experience with gaming in their youth) explicitly rewarded you for, both mechanically and emotionally.

thedungeondelver · November 02, 2011, 04:06:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;487719A term I saw used on another forum, ostensibly about roleplaying games but mostly about tangential subjects. It was being used there to refer to D&D Player Characters, suggesting that D&D is a fatally flawed game because instead of producing great heroes, it produces detached vagrants who kill wantonly.

My question: does anyone seriously buy this crap? Is "murder-hobos" an accurate depiction of how you would define the PCs of your D&D game?

RPGPundit

No, it's intellectual dishonesty started by mental midgets whose sole experience with D&D was dungeon crawls and nothing but when they were adolescents, and they now refuse to believe that even older editions support anything but, because of the XP for GP math.

What these small-minded philistines fail to apprehend is that "overcoming" a "monster" doesn't necessarily mean killing it. But they'll of course engage in the worst kind of disingenuous nonsense and drown out any reasonable discussion on the matter.

kregmosier · November 02, 2011, 04:59:16 PM

[image removed at pundits request]

Melan · November 02, 2011, 04:59:55 PM

So, am I the only one here who has

not only played in games with murder hobo characters, but
enjoyed them and
doesn't find them a guilty pleasure?

Because I think you folks are missing out on something. Playing anti-social lowlives risking life and limb for a fistful of gold pieces in a dangerous, hostile and overpoweringly amoral world is liberating and legitimately entertaining.

Imp · November 02, 2011, 05:06:01 PM

Yeah, seriously, a good game of murder hobos is good fun for the whole family!

I mean, use more self-important language if you want, but "murder hobos" is basically the sword-and-sorcery vibe. The key, of course, is that there isn't that much of a divide between the murder hobos and the kings.

thedungeondelver · November 02, 2011, 05:06:29 PM

Quote from: Melan;487779So, am I the only one here who has
not only played in games with murder hobo characters, but
enjoyed them and
doesn't find them a guilty pleasure?
Because I think you folks are missing out on something. Playing anti-social lowlives risking life and limb for a fistful of gold pieces in a dangerous, hostile and overpoweringly amoral world is liberating and legitimately entertaining.

Oh I think it can be a blast; I just think people who feel it's all D&D is about need a head-check.

Werekoala · November 02, 2011, 05:24:05 PM

I'll only be a murder hobo if I can use a shotgun.

Seriously though, D&D to me was always about gritty, dirty guys doing gritty, dirty things in gritty, dirty places in seach of loot. Look at the illos. in the PHB and DMG fer chrissakes, not a lot of "points of light" glamour shots in there that I recall. Over time, that view has changed a bit, but it's still there in the back of my mind.

Peregrin · November 02, 2011, 05:25:04 PM

Quote from: Melan;487779So, am I the only one here who has
not only played in games with murder hobo characters, but
enjoyed them and
doesn't find them a guilty pleasure?
Because I think you folks are missing out on something. Playing anti-social lowlives risking life and limb for a fistful of gold pieces in a dangerous, hostile and overpoweringly amoral world is liberating and legitimately entertaining.

Old Geezer still runs games like this, IIRC. It involves things other than killing and looting, but he doesn't pretend that's mostly what the game is about at lower levels.

And yes, they can totally be entertaining. People who snub murder-hoboism are the same types who bitch about Diablo because it's just 'simple' fun and doesn't involve real role-playing blah blah blah.

Our Keep game is borderline murder-hobo-ist. I don't think it suffers for it at all, though I do expect the game to expand and evolve and it'll probably look different than it does now after a little while.

Serious Paul · November 02, 2011, 05:38:11 PM

Quote from: Melan;487779So, am I the only one here who has
not only played in games with murder hobo characters, but
enjoyed them and
doesn't find them a guilty pleasure?
Because I think you folks are missing out on something. Playing anti-social lowlives risking life and limb for a fistful of gold pieces in a dangerous, hostile and overpoweringly amoral world is liberating and legitimately entertaining.

Absolutely not! In fact I think that describes several of the characters in at least every game I've ever run. To me the idea as presented by El Pundito wasn't this. I'm not sure how I separate the two concepts, so I have something to think on!

Thanks!

arminius · November 02, 2011, 05:43:51 PM

Quote from: kregmosier;487777but it's a good game!

Where's the body?

Quote from: daniel_ream;487766it would be disingenuous to ignore the fact that killing things and taking their stuff was the only thing that AD&D1E (the basis for most people's experience with gaming in their youth) explicitly rewarded you for, both mechanically and emotionally.

I don't think AD&D explicitly rewards anyone emotionally. That would be like saying "You be happy now", yes? Anyway, I agree that the structure of BTB D&D is easily interpreted as incentivizing gaining XP for sake of gaining levels, in order to become more powerful and cooler. Also, getting magic items along the way. But the entire "rewards" theory has been pushed much too far.

Quote from: Melan;487779So, am I the only one here who has
not only played in games with murder hobo characters, but
enjoyed them and
doesn't find them a guilty pleasure?
Because I think you folks are missing out on something. Playing anti-social lowlives risking life and limb for a fistful of gold pieces in a dangerous, hostile and overpoweringly amoral world is liberating and legitimately entertaining.

No, you're not the only one. But "murder hobo" carries a lot of baggage in both implication and usage. You know that when this guy uses the term he's projecting his damage onto D&D.

Simlasa · November 02, 2011, 05:44:17 PM

Yeah, I think they can be fun too... at least in small doses.
I think it also came out of talking to players (pre-internet) from other games... the loudest guys... all their stories seemingly about what they killed, what they got, how powerful they were now... at least in my experience it gave me the idea that kill/loot was all that was going on at their tables.

crkrueger · November 02, 2011, 05:55:39 PM

"Anti-social lowlives risking life and limb for a fistful of gold pieces in a dangerous, hostile and overpoweringly amoral world." is definite fun and is the key behind many stories in lots of genres: westerns, sword & sorcery, men's adventure, cyberpunk and the list goes on.

However the term "murder hobos" typically carries with it a little more then that when used by the people who sling it as a slight against D&D or people who don't play in a "sufficiently sophisticated" campaign.