Greetings!

Ok, game-wise, I'm using D&D 5E.

The plate armour used in 5E is a close proximity to the fancy stuff used by medieval knights throughout Europe, circa 14th-15th centuries. Yay! That's all nice and good.

However, my current campaign region is more on the tech level of 8th to 12th centuries, more or less. Plate Armour--the fancy kind--is not available, for anyone.

Then, of course, I have read that long before Plate Armour was developed in Western Europe, in places like Persia, Russia, and India, they had created primitive kinds of heavy plate armour centuries earlier. The campaign environment is a distinctly Eastern European/Russian/Central Asia in flavour, and while I am generally content with the diverse varieties of armour I have made available so far, I have been chewing on the idea of including some early forms of Eastern style plate armour.

It is clear from the historical literature as well as artist's renditions that such plate armour was heavier and more protective than Chainmail, or Chainmail Hauberks, or Scale Armour, all of which they also possessed at the time. The other armours were more popular for the most part because they were significantly cheaper to make and purchase, while also being lighter, more mobile, and also more comfortable. Nobles and elite warriors seemed to prefer full suits of Lamellar Armour--and these kinds of Eastern Plate Armour, as well. So, if you were to include such early kinds of Eastern style plate armour in the campaign, what kind of stats do you think such armour would have?

Thank you, for your thoughts and consideration.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It's still Plate Armor. D&D 5e doesn't differentiate to the degree you suggest. Also, if you weaken the heavy armor(s) anymore than they already are, expect that all fighting types will dump Strength and pump Dexterity as they go for light/medium armors, shields, and rapiers.

In my own system I only distinguish between light, medium and heavy armor which amounts to what percentage of your body is covered by the best presently available metal (be it bronze, iron or various grades of steel) with the rest covered in various padded armor like gambesons and that weapons are forged of similar materials and standards.

Less than 50% metal coverage is light (so typically helmet, breastplate, maybe some shin guards). 50-75% is medium (head, chest, arms, thighs; but might leave the shins/feet and/or forearms uncovered to reduce fatigue; particularly if shields are part of the standard kit). Heavy is 75+% with the best quality suits even getting built-in shield bonuses reflecting the redundancy of shields in conjunction with a full plate harness.

So during the age of mail, all of would just be varying degrees of coverage from light (shirt and a helmet) to medium (hauberk and helmet) to heavy (hauberk with mail leggings, full sleeves and gloves/mittens w. helmet). Superior models might include tighter patterns of mail, better steel with sturdier rivets or even early coat of plates type reinforcements.

I'm not quite sure what sort of armor you're referring to, could you provide a link to a description or picture of this armor?

You do mentioned lamellar armor, which was one of the most commonly used armor types in history and was perhaps more popular in the East than the West. What is lamellar? In 5th edition D&D terms, it's probably either scale armor or splint armor, depending on the coverage being provided.

A coat of plates is another common armor type not covered by D&D rules, though it's a step below plate, so should probably count as splint armor, as would something like lorica segmentata.

Quote from: ShieldWife on June 27, 2021, 03:11:32 AM
I'm not quite sure what sort of armor you're referring to, could you provide a link to a description or picture of this armor?

You do mentioned lamellar armor, which was one of the most commonly used armor types in history and was perhaps more popular in the East than the West. What is lamellar? In 5th edition D&D terms, it's probably either scale armor or splint armor, depending on the coverage being provided.

A coat of plates is another common armor type not covered by D&D rules, though it's a step below plate, so should probably count as splint armor, as would something like lorica segmentata.

Depending on how fine you want to cut it, lamellar armor allowed for more movement than scale.  Scale armor was tied to a backing garment, while lamellar armor is tied only to the other plates to the left and right and then either up or down, depending if the plates overlap going down (for infantry) or up (for cavalry).  As a result it can be tailored very easily to a person's measurements without the extreme expense of plate armor and is actually wrapped around your body, not tied to a looser garment underneath.

Well, the easiest way is treat plate as... plate. The stats are not necessarily realistic as they are (armor is insanely cheap in old school games IIRC). If both types are available, the earliest types might be a bit cheaper, similar weight, with lower AC.

Quote from: crkrueger on June 27, 2021, 07:05:36 AMDepending on how fine you want to cut it, lamellar armor allowed for more movement than scale.  Scale armor was tied to a backing garment, while lamellar armor is tied only to the other plates to the left and right and then either up or down, depending if the plates overlap going down (for infantry) or up (for cavalry).  As a result it can be tailored very easily to a person's measurements without the extreme expense of plate armor and is actually wrapped around your body, not tied to a looser garment underneath.

I disagree about allowing more movement than scale armor. Scale typically only connects to the backing at the top of each scale, making the armor almost as flexible as the backing material. But with lamellar, each little plate is connected at the top, bottom, and both sides it will have greater rigidity and thus less mobility. The trade off, though, is that it provides greater protection than scale, because those 4 points of connection make it harder for points to slide between scales and the greater rigidity provides greater protection against impact.

As you say, it would be cheaper than plate armor because it doesn't require precise metal working and sizing. In D&D terms, maybe scale or splint, depending on what area is covered. I think typically it often just protected the torso and maybe shoulders and upper legs.

Quote from: HappyDaze on June 26, 2021, 12:33:38 PM
It's still Plate Armor. D&D 5e doesn't differentiate to the degree you suggest. Also, if you weaken the heavy armor(s) anymore than they already are, expect that all fighting types will dump Strength and pump Dexterity as they go for light/medium armors, shields, and rapiers.

From a pure power-gaming perspective - DEX is probably already superior - though not by a ton. So yes - any nerf to STR builds will only force everyone to go with a DEX build.

Oh, I hadn't noticed you're using 5e. That being the case, I hope you'll allow me to pimp my book on 5e armor.

It has rules on building your own armor, but it makes armor more abstract, not necessarily more realistic (nor do I think 5e armor is realistic; leather armor, for example, should probably trade places with padded armor, since leather is more noisy - and so on).

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/291153/5e-Manual-of-Arms-Armor--Shields?src=hottest_filtered

But, anyway, looking at existing armor, I'd classify "eastern plate" as sometihng close to splint or plate.

Greetings!

Good stuff! Splint Mail sounds like it might be a good stand-in for early styles of Eastern Plate Armour.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What armor was being actually used in the Dark Ages?

Any links for photos or illustrations?

Quote from: Spinachcat on June 30, 2021, 12:42:05 AM
What armor was being actually used in the Dark Ages?

Any links for photos or illustrations?

Here are some examples of Dark Ages armor.

















https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2017/11/12/wars-of-charlemagne/

Meanwhile, in China...

In the North and South period, (c.5th-6th century AD), a type of armor called "Cord-and-Plaque" became popular. It was described as double metal breastplates tied around a frame front and back -- probably much like a cuirass -- while waist, thigh, and shoulder armor were lamellar. There is some evidence that this style was lightened to become the "mirror armor" of the late Tang through the Song dynasties.