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5e Armor and Shield "Proficiency"

Started by HappyDaze, June 24, 2021, 05:52:38 PM

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oggsmash

#15
June 26, 2021, 10:21:07 AM
Quote from: Omega on June 25, 2021, 09:10:47 PM
Right. But that is from levelling up. Not an actual effect of proficiency.

As with skills once you have them they do not change on their own and only improve if your stats or prof bonus does. Pretty much how it worked in AD&D. Skills were just... there.

Think it was Oriental Adventures that introduced proficiencies. I'd have to break it out and see if that system was static as well. Eventually that changed and became a part of 2e.

  Yeah, but a shield is closer to a weapon with how it is used and manipulated than something you wear.   If you have no proficiency with a weapon you get a negative mod to use.  I get why the game doesnt have a climbing bonus with a shield for proficiency, but the feats associated with a shield are a bit weak sauce.  5e at times with every class having "super powers" looks like a very naked attempt to balance all classes towards high level with mages rather than a game to let players play the class they want to pretend to be, if that makes sense.

HappyDaze

#16
June 26, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 26, 2021, 10:21:07 AM
Quote from: Omega on June 25, 2021, 09:10:47 PM
Right. But that is from levelling up. Not an actual effect of proficiency.

As with skills once you have them they do not change on their own and only improve if your stats or prof bonus does. Pretty much how it worked in AD&D. Skills were just... there.

Think it was Oriental Adventures that introduced proficiencies. I'd have to break it out and see if that system was static as well. Eventually that changed and became a part of 2e.

  Yeah, but a shield is closer to a weapon with how it is used and manipulated than something you wear.   If you have no proficiency with a weapon you get a negative mod to use.  I get why the game doesnt have a climbing bonus with a shield for proficiency, but the feats associated with a shield are a bit weak sauce.  5e at times with every class having "super powers" looks like a very naked attempt to balance all classes towards high level with mages rather than a game to let players play the class they want to pretend to be, if that makes sense.
No. This is specifically a 5e thread. In 5e, you do NOT get any penalty for using a non-proficient weapon. Instead, you get a bonus for using a weapon you are proficient in. This is also how it works for skills, tools, and saves. Only armor works backwards.

S'mon

#17
June 27, 2021, 06:22:43 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on June 26, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
No. This is specifically a 5e thread. In 5e, you do NOT get any penalty for using a non-proficient weapon. Instead, you get a bonus for using a weapon you are proficient in. This is also how it works for skills, tools, and saves. Only armor works backwards.

Yes. But both Armour and Weapon Prof are just the default "it's ok to use this" status. You're obviously not supposed to use armour without proficiency; that's why the penalties are so heavy. It's just there to create the tropes of unarmoured wizards and rogues in studded leather, without actually banning them from wearing heavy armour.

oggsmash

#18
June 27, 2021, 08:10:57 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on June 26, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 26, 2021, 10:21:07 AM
Quote from: Omega on June 25, 2021, 09:10:47 PM
Right. But that is from levelling up. Not an actual effect of proficiency.

As with skills once you have them they do not change on their own and only improve if your stats or prof bonus does. Pretty much how it worked in AD&D. Skills were just... there.

Think it was Oriental Adventures that introduced proficiencies. I'd have to break it out and see if that system was static as well. Eventually that changed and became a part of 2e.

  Yeah, but a shield is closer to a weapon with how it is used and manipulated than something you wear.   If you have no proficiency with a weapon you get a negative mod to use.  I get why the game doesnt have a climbing bonus with a shield for proficiency, but the feats associated with a shield are a bit weak sauce.  5e at times with every class having "super powers" looks like a very naked attempt to balance all classes towards high level with mages rather than a game to let players play the class they want to pretend to be, if that makes sense.
No. This is specifically a 5e thread. In 5e, you do NOT get any penalty for using a non-proficient weapon. Instead, you get a bonus for using a weapon you are proficient in. This is also how it works for skills, tools, and saves. Only armor works backwards.

  I only ever play a fighter, so I missed that.   So removal of a negative for armor, and no bonus for shield are the rewards of proficiency for armor and shield? (I dont have my phb with me, as my brother has all my books except volo's and xanathar's, and I have no idea where my son has tucked his away).  So  having or not having shield proficiency is a non factor?

Eric Diaz

#19
June 28, 2021, 09:02:15 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 27, 2021, 08:10:57 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on June 26, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on June 26, 2021, 10:21:07 AM
Quote from: Omega on June 25, 2021, 09:10:47 PM
Right. But that is from levelling up. Not an actual effect of proficiency.

As with skills once you have them they do not change on their own and only improve if your stats or prof bonus does. Pretty much how it worked in AD&D. Skills were just... there.

Think it was Oriental Adventures that introduced proficiencies. I'd have to break it out and see if that system was static as well. Eventually that changed and became a part of 2e.

  Yeah, but a shield is closer to a weapon with how it is used and manipulated than something you wear.   If you have no proficiency with a weapon you get a negative mod to use.  I get why the game doesnt have a climbing bonus with a shield for proficiency, but the feats associated with a shield are a bit weak sauce.  5e at times with every class having "super powers" looks like a very naked attempt to balance all classes towards high level with mages rather than a game to let players play the class they want to pretend to be, if that makes sense.
No. This is specifically a 5e thread. In 5e, you do NOT get any penalty for using a non-proficient weapon. Instead, you get a bonus for using a weapon you are proficient in. This is also how it works for skills, tools, and saves. Only armor works backwards.

  I only ever play a fighter, so I missed that.   So removal of a negative for armor, and no bonus for shield are the rewards of proficiency for armor and shield? (I dont have my phb with me, as my brother has all my books except volo's and xanathar's, and I have no idea where my son has tucked his away).  So  having or not having shield proficiency is a non factor?

"Armor Proficiency. Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the armor's use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certain types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can't cast spells."

It works the same for armor and shields; you get the AC bonus (+2 for the shield, varies for armor), but you get the penalties mentioned above unless you're proficient.
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