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Author Topic: “Mother Lands is a tabletop role-playing game free of slavery and colonialism”  (Read 2043 times)

Thorn Drumheller

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So I read the article, despite the inclusive title. And the big take for me is the "creators" don't seem to have a freaking clue about human nature. I know the article is not exhaustive but you mean to tell me that in that 2000 year history that the only wars are based on resources......okay Jan. It really is a fantasy....I mean I get it....we play rpg's to have a fantastical element but.....idk, seems virtue signaling wish fulfillment to me.
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Ghostmaker

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So I read the article, despite the inclusive title. And the big take for me is the "creators" don't seem to have a freaking clue about human nature. I know the article is not exhaustive but you mean to tell me that in that 2000 year history that the only wars are based on resources......okay Jan. It really is a fantasy....I mean I get it....we play rpg's to have a fantastical element but.....idk, seems virtue signaling wish fulfillment to me.
The funny thing is that they're almost right. Heinlein once opined that all wars stem from economic pressure at their very roots. Sure, you have religious conflicts and whatnot, but the almighty drachma will move people in ways even the gods won't.

But they're just so darn desperate to paint their author avatars as the inheritors of a 'noble savage' race that they sweep all the warts under the rug.

Rob Necronomicon

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Well, if Islam is the 'historical model' then it's complete wish fulfillment considering just how violent they were back in the day.

Seems a bit pointless as concept, but whatever floats your diversity boat.
"Attack minded and dangerously so." - W.E. Fairbairn.

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Torque2100

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Friendly reminder to archive these articles.  Most modern "Journalists" specialize in harvesting hate-clicks with radioactive garbage takes like this.  Do not give Polygon traffic.

https://archive.is/UqJ9M

Svenhelgrim

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LOL.

This is just another Swordsfall.  The game probably won’t even get made.

Also:Mali sold slaves. 

Valatar

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"No colonialism!"

Literally colonizing another inhabited planet.

Uh huh.

Stephen Tannhauser

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"No colonialism!"  Literally colonizing another inhabited planet.

Well, it wasn't by choice, going by the write-up. And they can't get back, so they can't send any of their plunder home, so obviously it's not "real" colonialism. (/sarc)

I think the designers would have done better simply to create a secondary-world culture right from the get go, if they wanted to leave those elements out of the worldbuilding entirely. But if they want a setting full of conflict (as any entertaining RPG has always involved), then sooner or later those conflicts are going to manifest on a sociocultural scale, and it's difficult for me to imagine how those conflicts will play out without involving actions that amount to enslavement and colonialism even if they don't use those terms.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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Valatar

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"No colonialism!"  Literally colonizing another inhabited planet.

Well, it wasn't by choice, going by the write-up.

Except apparently it was, since the article says they were a fleet sent to find the new world.  Unless their plan was to land, say, "Okay, we made it!", then turn around and sail back, they were intending to either exploit or settle on whatever land they found.  They were doing exactly what all the other seafaring nations were doing.  I'm sure they weren't expecting to wind up on another planet, but you can certainly bet they weren't planning on going home empty-handed.

SHARK

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"No colonialism!"  Literally colonizing another inhabited planet.

Well, it wasn't by choice, going by the write-up.

Except apparently it was, since the article says they were a fleet sent to find the new world.  Unless their plan was to land, say, "Okay, we made it!", then turn around and sail back, they were intending to either exploit or settle on whatever land they found.  They were doing exactly what all the other seafaring nations were doing.  I'm sure they weren't expecting to wind up on another planet, but you can certainly bet they weren't planning on going home empty-handed.

Greetings!

Exactly right, Valatar!

All of these SJW's engaging in their pathetic circle-jerk fantasies are so stupid and historically ignorant it's disgusting. Oh, I wonder who *introduced slavery of black Africans* to the white European sea captains and merchants that were exploring the African coasts? Yeah, that's right!--it was powerful black African kings that were very busy fighting wars against other rival black African kingdoms and tribes. The black African kings wanted advantages against their hated enemies--like the European firearms!

And guess what? The more firearms they got from European merchants provided them with even stronger advantages against their hated enemies, which as they conquered them, they of course captured even MORE SLAVES. That of course made the prices of slaves become very cheap, so even more enticing for the European ship captains and merchants. Those European ship captains and merchants, able to buy African slaves on the cheap, were able to mark up their prices back home and in foreign markets--and make fortunes! Then, well, the African kings, and their tribal allies? By conquering their hated enemies and weaker, less sophisticated neighbours, well, they GOT RICH TOO! Lots of gold, women, and BOOTY going around for lots of people--black Africans and white Europeans both. Oh, and the sweet Muslims were right in there too, raping, plundering, conquering, and getting filthy rich exploiting everyone that they could too.

I'm sorry for the rant. As a trained historian, I just hate historical revisionism, historical ignorance, but even worse, what I call intentional Historical Vandalism. All done for the purpose of coddling their pathetic SJW Marxist goddamn ideology.

None of these moron fucking "POC" game designers or writers ever want to actually talk about the TRUTH. Geesus, these people and their racist, pathetic arguments and their terrible ideology of lies and BS makes me want to chew nails.  >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

Thorn Drumheller

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"No colonialism!"

Literally colonizing another inhabited planet.

Uh huh.

Yup! Makes sense to me /s
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Thorn Drumheller

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"No colonialism!"  Literally colonizing another inhabited planet.

Well, it wasn't by choice, going by the write-up.

Except apparently it was, since the article says they were a fleet sent to find the new world.  Unless their plan was to land, say, "Okay, we made it!", then turn around and sail back, they were intending to either exploit or settle on whatever land they found.  They were doing exactly what all the other seafaring nations were doing.  I'm sure they weren't expecting to wind up on another planet, but you can certainly bet they weren't planning on going home empty-handed.

Greetings!

Exactly right, Valatar!

All of these SJW's engaging in their pathetic circle-jerk fantasies are so stupid and historically ignorant it's disgusting. Oh, I wonder who *introduced slavery of black Africans* to the white European sea captains and merchants that were exploring the African coasts? Yeah, that's right!--it was powerful black African kings that were very busy fighting wars against other rival black African kingdoms and tribes. The black African kings wanted advantages against their hated enemies--like the European firearms!

And guess what? The more firearms they got from European merchants provided them with even stronger advantages against their hated enemies, which as they conquered them, they of course captured even MORE SLAVES. That of course made the prices of slaves become very cheap, so even more enticing for the European ship captains and merchants. Those European ship captains and merchants, able to buy African slaves on the cheap, were able to mark up their prices back home and in foreign markets--and make fortunes! Then, well, the African kings, and their tribal allies? By conquering their hated enemies and weaker, less sophisticated neighbours, well, they GOT RICH TOO! Lots of gold, women, and BOOTY going around for lots of people--black Africans and white Europeans both. Oh, and the sweet Muslims were right in there too, raping, plundering, conquering, and getting filthy rich exploiting everyone that they could too.

I'm sorry for the rant. As a trained historian, I just hate historical revisionism, historical ignorance, but even worse, what I call intentional Historical Vandalism. All done for the purpose of coddling their pathetic SJW Marxist goddamn ideology.

None of these moron fucking "POC" game designers or writers ever want to actually talk about the TRUTH. Geesus, these people and their racist, pathetic arguments and their terrible ideology of lies and BS makes me want to chew nails.  >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quite right, Shark. I too despise the historical ignorance. You put it very succinctly.
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SHARK

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"No colonialism!"  Literally colonizing another inhabited planet.

Well, it wasn't by choice, going by the write-up.

Except apparently it was, since the article says they were a fleet sent to find the new world.  Unless their plan was to land, say, "Okay, we made it!", then turn around and sail back, they were intending to either exploit or settle on whatever land they found.  They were doing exactly what all the other seafaring nations were doing.  I'm sure they weren't expecting to wind up on another planet, but you can certainly bet they weren't planning on going home empty-handed.

Greetings!

Exactly right, Valatar!

All of these SJW's engaging in their pathetic circle-jerk fantasies are so stupid and historically ignorant it's disgusting. Oh, I wonder who *introduced slavery of black Africans* to the white European sea captains and merchants that were exploring the African coasts? Yeah, that's right!--it was powerful black African kings that were very busy fighting wars against other rival black African kingdoms and tribes. The black African kings wanted advantages against their hated enemies--like the European firearms!

And guess what? The more firearms they got from European merchants provided them with even stronger advantages against their hated enemies, which as they conquered them, they of course captured even MORE SLAVES. That of course made the prices of slaves become very cheap, so even more enticing for the European ship captains and merchants. Those European ship captains and merchants, able to buy African slaves on the cheap, were able to mark up their prices back home and in foreign markets--and make fortunes! Then, well, the African kings, and their tribal allies? By conquering their hated enemies and weaker, less sophisticated neighbours, well, they GOT RICH TOO! Lots of gold, women, and BOOTY going around for lots of people--black Africans and white Europeans both. Oh, and the sweet Muslims were right in there too, raping, plundering, conquering, and getting filthy rich exploiting everyone that they could too.

I'm sorry for the rant. As a trained historian, I just hate historical revisionism, historical ignorance, but even worse, what I call intentional Historical Vandalism. All done for the purpose of coddling their pathetic SJW Marxist goddamn ideology.

None of these moron fucking "POC" game designers or writers ever want to actually talk about the TRUTH. Geesus, these people and their racist, pathetic arguments and their terrible ideology of lies and BS makes me want to chew nails.  >:(

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quite right, Shark. I too despise the historical ignorance. You put it very succinctly.

Greetings!

Thank you, THORN! Yeah, it drives me nuts about the historical ignorance, and the lying! Arrgghhh! See, though, the TRUTH is uncomfortable for many. They can't endlessly justify hating other people, other races, and feeling like they are endlessly oppressed victims that are really just sweet, innocent and pure. Black Africans are historically no more and no less virtuous or moral than white Europeans or anyone else. Everyone, everywhere, in America, South America, Europe, Africa, Asia, and everywhere in between has had their fair share of goodness and evil, throughout history, at different times. THAT is the truth, you know what I'm saying?

Get a good cigar to light up and a nice cold margarita! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

Stephen Tannhauser

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Except apparently it was, since the article says they were a fleet sent to find the new world.

Ah, right, missed that bit, sorry -- I was just thinking about the how-they-got-to-the-planet part.

Intriguingly, a little research suggests that either the designers, or the journalist who wrote the article, got the names slightly wrong; Mansa Musa didn't send the Malian exploration fleet, it was his predecessor Abubakari II, who reportedly abdicated to lead it -- although the only evidence that this actually happened derives from a single historian's account of a story from Musa himself. Egyptian historians describe the expedition as containing a full three thousand ships, which accounting for likely exaggeration means there were probably at least a few hundred vessels if it did happen. (Interestingly, according to this article, this abdication of duty was seen as a shameful act on Abubakari's part, which is why the Griots -- the historians of Africa -- apparently refused to write about the expedition.)

That said, while the Muslims of the Malian empire were predominantly Sunni and had absorbed a number of relaxed practices and mysticisms from the local tribes the faith had absorbed, Islam is still fundamentally an expansionist faith that divides the world into the dar al-Islam (the House of Submission) and the dar ul-Harb (the House of War), and I don't see how they make that into a "non-expansionist" culture without changing the faith so radically I should think it would be found offensive in itself. The Malians were also, as has been noted, unashamed practitioners of slavery, and if the designers want the setting to be plausible they'll need a pretty good explanation for how that practice was abandoned.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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Snark Knight

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I'm pretty sure Woke RPG Kickstarters are some sort of money laundering scheme at this point; they make hundreds of thousands of dollars but you never hear or see them being played.

oggsmash

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I'm pretty sure Woke RPG Kickstarters are some sort of money laundering scheme at this point; they make hundreds of thousands of dollars but you never hear or see them being played.

  I watched a couple seasons of the Show on netflix, Ozark, and it sure seems like a kickstarter or the like would be a very good way to wash cash.