Quote from: jhkimHm.  The seventies had the prose of the 1st edition Dungeon Master's Guide and the eighties brought stuff like Rolemaster with its endless lists and tables, or Aftermath and Space Opera.  

I think, I may have been looking back at the era with rose-tinted glasses. I will say, however that lists and tables say more in a paragraph than some of the more verbose descriptions found in the text of rpgs today.

I definitely have noticed more of a novelist dream approach to most rpg writings as opposed to say - here's the game, this is how you use it (which was the norm in the past). IMO, off course.

QuoteAnd as pointed out, there are a number of simpler and more generic games these days (like Savage Worlds, the cinematic Unisystem games, and others).  

I'd add stuff like BESM (1st ed) which did a fine job conveying the genre of the game - such an easy read - and stuff like (I know, I know -some would not even consider this a real rpg), Nicotine Girls.

QuoteSo I'm not sure that things have changed all that much.  

I suppose with all this diversity going on, it's pretty hard to generalize the content and presentation of games as it is now. Something one could do with relative ease in the past because there were fewer kinds of games around.

Regards,
David R

Definitely way too many wannabe/failed novelists.

RPGPundit

Quote from: David RAlthough, I have to mention Coldspace, which effectively communicates everything it wants to in a very concise manner. :shrug: I don't really have a clear answer for this.

That is because I'm a dinosaur. Ask anyone! I basically just stayed in the 80s when the rest of the gaming world moved on.

-clash

Quote from: David RI think, I may have been looking back at the era with rose-tinted glasses. I will say, however that lists and tables say more in a paragraph than some of the more verbose descriptions found in the text of rpgs today.

Lists and tables are not in fashion currently. They frighten some people, making their eyes glaze and blood pressure soar. OSHA has all kinds of rules now. RM is grandfathered, of course, but new games have to jump through hoops under the new regulations. :O

Quote from: David RI definitely have noticed more of a novelist dream approach to most rpg writings as opposed to say - here's the game, this is how you use it (which was the norm in the past). IMO, off course.

Regards,
David R

Following is the Flying Mice Pledge, recited by all our writers before setting pen to electron:

"I'm a technical writer. I was not born to write fiction. I have no talent for it, nor do I have the longing."

When we need a bit of fiction, we have real fiction writers to call on. We also limit it pretty severely. A taste, but no more.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceLists and tables are not in fashion currently. They frighten some people, making their eyes glaze and blood pressure soar.

I know! You should have seen my players' expressions when I got out my copy of Harnmaster and showed them the tables and stats and things to roll for. I thought it was cool, but they couldn't have looked more frightened if I'd pulled a real broadsword out from behind the fridge and brought it down cleaving the table in two!

Quote from: JimBobOzI know! You should have seen my players' expressions when I got out my copy of Harnmaster and showed them the tables and stats and things to roll for. I thought it was cool, but they couldn't have looked more frightened if I'd pulled a real broadsword out from behind the fridge and brought it down cleaving the table in two!

I've been slowly eliminating tables from all my games as I get the chance. Less paperwork and fines from the Game Police. So what if it takes twenty pages of prose to explain what takes one small table to show?  Tables have been assigned belligerent status, and there's a war on, don't ya know?

-clash

Clash, don't ever stop being so awesome.

Thanks, Jeff!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceLists and tables are not in fashion currently. They frighten some people, making their eyes glaze and blood pressure soar. OSHA has all kinds of rules now. RM is grandfathered, of course, but new games have to jump through hoops under the new regulations. :O

Hmph.

I like a good table now and then.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenHmph.

I like a good table now and then.

Shhh! All well and good to talk like this between close friends when drinking much vodka, but you are being watched, comrade Levi! Oh, yes, you are being watched! I for my part am totally loyal to the underpaid and long suffering Game Police! :O

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceShhh! All well and good to talk like this between close friends when drinking much vodka, but you are being watched, comrade Levi! Oh, yes, you are being watched! I for my part am totally loyal to the underpaid and long suffering Game Police! :O

I stand by my statement!

And more!  I approve of, and will continue to state my love for, special sheets that the GM can use to coordinate their stuff - ones with charts on!

I call them control sheets, no less!

They'll never take me alive.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenThey'll never take me alive.

I'm pretty sure that's not how they wanted you, anyway

Quote from: Levi KornelsenI stand by my statement!

And more!  I approve of, and will continue to state my love for, special sheets that the GM can use to coordinate their stuff - ones with charts on!

I call them control sheets, no less!

They'll never take me alive.

Control Sheets? As if any GM ever controlled any players anywhere! Players are like little thermonuclear devices which go off at random and frequent intervals. It's like an Orion nuclear rocket, but less predictable. What you need is a good blast shield and humungous shock absorbers.

Or is that just my players? All my players, ever? :O

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceI've been slowly eliminating tables from all my games as I get the chance. Less paperwork and fines from the Game Police. So what if it takes twenty pages of prose to explain what takes one small table to show?  Tables have been assigned belligerent status, and there's a war on, don't ya know?

-clash

Tables rock for the right uses. Tables do a certain job and do it well. If you are saying to yourself "What's the most effecent way of displaying this data?" that's a mark to the good for having table.

But when the answer is "table" and if you aren't asking yourself "Why do I need a table to convey this info, is the information too complicated to start with?" that's a mark to the bad for tables.  When your first instinct to the realization that "Wow, I've got a crapload of really complicated information to convey here" is "TABLE!" instead of "How can I reduce and simplify this?", and you aren't trying to write an Advance Squad Leader clone, that's a big black mark against tables.

Or the people crutching on them. One of the two.

Quote from: flyingmiceControl Sheets? As if any GM ever controlled any players anywhere!

Control....    players?

Oh, my gracious, no.  I've never met a good GM that controls players; the best ones don't even try.   Good GMs simply control situations, arranging them neatly so that when the players hit, things explode in a satisfying fashion.