Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters Of The Multiverse

Darrin Kelley · May 22, 2022, 05:26:14 PM

I got this book yesterday. And it actually had material in it that the books it replaced did not have. Some PC races that were never listed in Volo's Guide To Monsters. So yeah. I think this is a book that was worth getting.

Bear in mind. I do not feel one bit happy about those other two books being voided. I spent good money on those books. And considered them good books. But I will keep them regardless because of the fluff.

Bloody Malth · May 24, 2022, 01:24:54 AM

That's actually what pisses me off about the book. A small child's handful of new material, but most of it should have been free errata.

And all of it hidden behind woke trash. Why was the Orc's Aggressive ability changed to Adrenaline Rush (with no change to mechanics)? As if we needed more anachronisms in Dnd. Is the word "aggressive" pejorative now? In a game derived from wargames, a game that primarily revolves around combat? Can you not aggressively pursue a goal? Should you not be aggressive in sports?

I could not justify purchasing this if I was a billionaire. I need to convince all my friends to play other systems.

Palleon · May 24, 2022, 05:58:25 AM

Quote from: Bloody Malth on May 24, 2022, 01:24:54 AM
I could not justify purchasing this if I was a billionaire. I need to convince all my friends to play other systems.

Then you need to find one from a small publisher. Anything released by a publicly traded company is going to follow this direction so as not to offend four or five loud mouths.

Ghostmaker · May 24, 2022, 07:56:31 AM

Quote from: Bloody Malth on May 24, 2022, 01:24:54 AM
That's actually what pisses me off about the book. A small child's handful of new material, but most of it should have been free errata.

And all of it hidden behind woke trash. Why was the Orc's Aggressive ability changed to Adrenaline Rush (with no change to mechanics)? As if we needed more anachronisms in Dnd. Is the word "aggressive" pejorative now? In a game derived from wargames, a game that primarily revolves around combat? Can you not aggressively pursue a goal? Should you not be aggressive in sports?

I could not justify purchasing this if I was a billionaire. I need to convince all my friends to play other systems.

Pathfinder (both 1e and 2e) at least called it 'ferocity'.

oggsmash · May 24, 2022, 09:33:20 AM

Black Rock owns about 9 percent of Hasboro last I checked. They LOVE those ESG ratings...so likely that is the loudmouth you need to understand is causing all the "change for the better".

Looking into it a bit more, the company that is the largest stockholder, is a subsidiary of Capital group. The 2nd and 3rd are Blackrock and Vanguard (and those two are the HUGE pushers of social bullshit messaging from large corporations with ESG and such shit), and Black rock and Vanguard also own together about 10 percent of Capital Group. So if there are decisions coming from the board to do certain things, I think they are likely less from twitter and more from a board that is fucked up and playing at social engineering.

Abraxus · May 24, 2022, 10:06:55 AM

I guess what bothers me the most is Wokeness aside it's the fact that the majority of the book is rehash. With Wotc thinking we wouldn't notice as long as they tossed wokeness into the product. Except when the material is mostly unchanged yeah we are going to notice.

HappyDaze · May 24, 2022, 10:25:19 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on May 24, 2022, 10:06:55 AM
I guess what bothers me the most is Wokeness aside it's the fact that the majority of the book is rehash. With Wotc thinking we wouldn't notice as long as they tossed wokeness into the product. Except when the material is mostly unchanged yeah we are going to notice.

New players that don't own the previous products won't notice, and that's their target audience. WotC just doesn't care about past players coming back and it barely registers whether current players are sticking around. It's all about the players of tomorrow.

THE_Leopold · May 24, 2022, 10:27:43 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on May 24, 2022, 10:06:55 AM
I guess what bothers me the most is Wokeness aside it's the fact that the majority of the book is rehash. With Wotc thinking we wouldn't notice as long as they tossed wokeness into the product. Except when the material is mostly unchanged yeah we are going to notice.

WOTC simplified monster stats across the board to standardize on movement and abilities. Some flavor abilities were replaced with more "crunchy" ones (lizardman for example). Simplifying the monsters attack patterns to a more 4E approach (1/round, 3/day, etc.) instead of a litanny of spells you'll NEVER use in combat for a monster. There are major here for PC's to look into.

I call this a Quality of Life update more than anything else.

Does it suck that older books are now called "Legacy" ala Star Wars? Yes. Can you still use the old books? Yes. Is it chock full of Wokeness? Of course it's WOTC.

Rob Necronomicon · May 24, 2022, 10:42:47 AM

Quote from: Palleon on May 24, 2022, 05:58:25 AM
Quote from: Bloody Malth on May 24, 2022, 01:24:54 AM
I could not justify purchasing this if I was a billionaire. I need to convince all my friends to play other systems.

Then you need to find one from a small publisher. Anything released by a publicly traded company is going to follow this direction so as not to offend four or five loud mouths.

This is it and we've all been saying it for years too. Your only reward is a knife in the back.

Darrin Kelley · May 24, 2022, 10:55:09 AM

Quote from: Bloody Malth on May 24, 2022, 01:24:54 AM
That's actually what pisses me off about the book. A small child's handful of new material, but most of it should have been free errata.

And all of it hidden behind woke trash. Why was the Orc's Aggressive ability changed to Adrenaline Rush (with no change to mechanics)? As if we needed more anachronisms in Dnd. Is the word "aggressive" pejorative now? In a game derived from wargames, a game that primarily revolves around combat? Can you not aggressively pursue a goal? Should you not be aggressive in sports?

I could not justify purchasing this if I was a billionaire. I need to convince all my friends to play other systems.

Doesn't matter to me. I still don't and won't use Orcs in my games.

My fantasy gaming is not based on Tolkien. I prefer to present a different view and flavor.

Abraxus · May 24, 2022, 11:06:21 AM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on May 24, 2022, 10:27:43 AM
Quote from: Abraxus on May 24, 2022, 10:06:55 AM
I guess what bothers me the most is Wokeness aside it's the fact that the majority of the book is rehash. With Wotc thinking we wouldn't notice as long as they tossed wokeness into the product. Except when the material is mostly unchanged yeah we are going to notice.

WOTC simplified monster stats across the board to standardize on movement and abilities. Some flavor abilities were replaced with more "crunchy" ones (lizardman for example). Simplifying the monsters attack patterns to a more 4E approach (1/round, 3/day, etc.) instead of a litanny of spells you'll NEVER use in combat for a monster. There are major here for PC's to look into.

I call this a Quality of Life update more than anything else.

Does it suck that older books are now called "Legacy" ala Star Wars? Yes. Can you still use the old books? Yes. Is it chock full of Wokeness? Of course it's WOTC.

Thanks for the update

I think if they had pushed the book as a errata or not try to pass it off as a new book like their ad made it look like their would be less of an outcry. Their marketing tried to pass the book off as new monsters new material.

At this point wokeness won't make or break a purchase for me. At most picture the Robert Downey GIf of rolling his eyes. Otherwise it's going to remain in upcoming books.

Darrin Kelley · May 24, 2022, 12:13:55 PM

Actually, books like this, with inclusions of stuff originally in setting books give me less of a reason to buy those settings. And yes, I rather appreciate that. having all of that material collated in one book. Rather than having to chase down half a dozen other books for little dribbles of new material. It saves me money. So I'm not upset about that.

Mordenkainen's Tome Of Foes was a fairly recent book. To find most of its contents having been given updates in this book makes me ask some serious questions. Like: Where was the playtesting of Tome Of Foes. How could they have not caught stuff that didn't work in it? Where is their quality control?

BoxCrayonTales · May 24, 2022, 12:29:30 PM

Quote from: Bloody Malth on May 24, 2022, 01:24:54 AM
That's actually what pisses me off about the book. A small child's handful of new material, but most of it should have been free errata.

And all of it hidden behind woke trash. Why was the Orc's Aggressive ability changed to Adrenaline Rush (with no change to mechanics)? As if we needed more anachronisms in Dnd. Is the word "aggressive" pejorative now? In a game derived from wargames, a game that primarily revolves around combat? Can you not aggressively pursue a goal? Should you not be aggressive in sports?

I could not justify purchasing this if I was a billionaire. I need to convince all my friends to play other systems.

The woke still think orcs were originally meant to be a caricature of black people and their continued depiction promotes racism. Both statements have been thoroughly debunked.

Abraxus · May 24, 2022, 12:50:02 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on May 24, 2022, 12:13:55 PM
Actually, books like this, with inclusions of stuff originally in setting books give me less of a reason to buy those settings. And yes, I rather appreciate that. having all of that material collated in one book. Rather than having to chase down half a dozen other books for little dribbles of new material. It saves me money. So I'm not upset about that.

Mordenkainen's Tome Of Foes was a fairly recent book. To find most of its contents having been given updates in this book makes me ask some serious questions. Like: Where was the playtesting of Tome Of Foes. How could they have not caught stuff that didn't work in it? Where is their quality control?

Some players don't like that certai. Races have negatives. Either in terms of attributes or lore (ie most Drow are evil) . It less to do with play testing and more Wotc wanting to cater to players who want the benefits of day Drow without any of the negatives. Or a wanting to have a six foot tall halfling. While still retaining the halfling bonuses due to small size on Stealth. Basically all races are an equal footing and no longer tied to any alignments.

Palleon · May 24, 2022, 01:23:25 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on May 24, 2022, 12:13:55 PM
Mordenkainen's Tome Of Foes was a fairly recent book. To find most of its contents having been given updates in this book makes me ask some serious questions. Like: Where was the playtesting of Tome Of Foes. How could they have not caught stuff that didn't work in it? Where is their quality control?

It's more likely the continuous stream of new player options like Tasha's breaking earlier design assumptions under Mearls' leadership. The more "cool shit" added for the sales outside the traditional DM focus always breaks everything.