I would love for 5E to be something I'd enjoy.

My college group is pretty big and almost all they play is 3.0 and 3.5. They don't even play PF. This isn't even the old school. Most can't drink. It would be nice if everyone could get on board with a good new version of D&D.

QuoteMy college group is pretty big and almost all they play is 3.0 and 3.5. They don't even play PF. This isn't even the old school. Most can't drink. It would be nice if everyone could get on board with a good new version of D&D.

Hey, that's great for the gaming groups, though.  They found something that works for them and they're sticking with it and sharing it with others.  Talk about a good investment in your gaming materials.

If they can lose the damn miniature dependence, and have a couple of difference combat systems (one for the wargamers and one for the roleplayers) a la GURPS (i.e. basic combat and tactical combat), then I'd check it out.

Would it be so damn hard to do that?

Quote from: thedungeondelver;480448Mearls has been a fucking bungler in that column from day one.  He can't get facts about old D&D right; why should anyone bother to listen?

I don't care either way about Monte Cook or his opinion on anything unless his first announcement is to go back to formula and start over, which they won't since that'd be admitting they were wrong and Wizards is incapable of doing that.

LOL...   I like Monte Cook.

He has done great things for D&D especially 3.0/3.5.

LOL

Quote from: Benoist;480520I think he's both a great DM and a great game designer.

That doesn't mean what he does will be liked by everyone, nor should it be, really. One can be a great game designer and have a completely different vision for the game than this or that other gamer and/or game designer does. These aren't opposite propositions in my mind.

+1  I totally agree.

Monte Cook is strong with ideas, not so much with execution.  Keep him on the team for rules discussions but make sure you get the aspie nerds for doing the numbers.

What is WotC really going to change in 5e?

1. Are they going to stop assuming their core audience is teenage ADD videogamers and write the game possibly to include other audiences as well?  Probably not.

2. Are they going to make a game that doesn't enshrine the Min/Max culture?  Probably not, the min/max culture sells splats.

3. Are they going to make an attempt to at least pretend the powers used by characters in the world actually have anything to do with the world they're in and not just pure metagame?  Since they never saw a problem with what they did originally, probably not.

What we're going to end up with is another game designed by committee, vetted by bean counters, with all the creative energy a Billion-dollar corp can provide.  Unless they're gonna put Monte Cook in charge of the whole thing, I don't think he's really gonna do much.

QuoteWhat is WotC really going to change in 5e?

I guess we shall see when it comes out.  

QuoteWhat we're going to end up with is another game designed by committee, vetted by bean counters, with all the creative energy a Billion-dollar corp can provide.

How do you know this???  Where did you read this???

QuoteI don't think he's really gonna do much.

Give the guy a chance to get his feet wet.  He has been doing this much longer then most of you whiners and complainers have been.

Quote from: 1989;480537If they can lose the damn miniature dependence, and have a couple of difference combat systems (one for the wargamers and one for the roleplayers) a la GURPS (i.e. basic combat and tactical combat), then I'd check it out.

Would it be so damn hard to do that?

Cost for plastic/Chinese labor has gone up since 2005. WotC sure lack a robust way of distributing minis, always have, but now it's non-existant and there's no way back beyond pricey collectors's sets like that glorified box containing 3 beholder minis they sold in 2010 (their last offering of plastic minis).

They may well rethink whether they want their product to tie into other product they have effectively stopped selling.

Quote from: CRKrueger;4805492. Are they going to make a game that doesn't enshrine the Min/Max culture?  Probably not, the min/max culture sells splats.

I've come to see this as THE thing on which everything else turns. Accessibility and complexity of rules? Any decision point on either axis will most likely be the causal effect of their choice on whether to continue with the min/max splat'xplosion. It's what sets their print run of D&D apart from... not just previous D&D but nearly all other RPGs I know. Dumpster diving splats for the +1 on your to-hit roll doesn't seem to loom large in the Dark Heresy, Cthluhu, or Rolemaster or Shadowrun playerbase or surrounding culture of play.

I don't see WotC abandon this, precisely because they'll have to compromise other revenue streams (like minis).

But most importantly - will 5E be a piece of software, with the only physical things being the dice and your character sheet printed off before the session from an online subscription based char-gen software?

And finally, what bullshit PR will they tell us this time? I think it's going to be funny.

Quote from: Ancientgamer1970;480551Give the guy a chance to get his feet wet.  He has been doing this much longer then most of you whiners and complainers have been.

He's also said repeatedly since 2002 that he has "retired" for good from design. Wolf Baur even ribbed Monte in an interview in Kobold Quarterly about that thing ("Monte, what do you mean by retirement?"). That was when Monte did the Experimental Might books. So before Monte "came back" again for Pathfinder. And before he came back out of retirement, again, for D&D 5E. It's a weird way to behave - sign off and then come back. I like Monte's work, mostly, but he has been a drama queen in the last 9 years.

Quote from: Windjammer;480554Cost for plastic/Chinese labor has gone up since 2005. WotC sure lack a robust way of distributing minis, always have, but now it's non-existant and there's no way back beyond pricey collectors's sets like that glorified box containing 3 beholder minis they sold in 2010 (their last offering of plastic minis).

They may well rethink whether they want their product to tie into other product they have effectively stopped selling.



I've come to see this as THE thing on which everything else turns. Accessibility and complexity of rules? Any decision point on either axis will most likely be the causal effect of their choice on whether to continue with the min/max splat'xplosion. It's what sets their print run of D&D apart from... not just previous D&D but nearly all other RPGs I know. Dumpster diving splats for the +1 on your to-hit roll doesn't seem to loom large in the Dark Heresy, Cthluhu, or Rolemaster or Shadowrun playerbase or surrounding culture of play.

I don't see WotC abandon this, precisely because they'll have to compromise other revenue streams (like minis).

But most importantly - will 5E be a piece of software, with the only physical things being the dice and your character sheet printed off before the session from an online subscription based char-gen software?

And finally, what bullshit PR will they tell us this time? I think it's going to be funny.

Maybe D&D 5 will be Dark Tower coupled with that horrifying electronic monopoly game that plays you rather than you it.

5e announcement next GenCon! That's the only reason Cook would go back, in all likelihood.

Quote from: Windjammer;480556He's also said repeatedly since 2002 that he has "retired" for good from design. Wolf Baur even ribbed Monte in an interview in Kobold Quarterly about that thing ("Monte, what do you mean by retirement?"). That was when Monte did the Experimental Might books. So before Monte "came back" again for Pathfinder. And before he came back out of retirement, again, for D&D 5E. It's a weird way to behave - sign off and then come back. I like Monte's work, mostly, but he has been a drama queen in the last 9 years.

He's the Brett Favre of gaming!

Quote from: danbuter;4805735e announcement next GenCon! That's the only reason Cook would go back, in all likelihood.

Maybe the paycheck is just too good to resist.

Wonder how much of 5E is already finished.

If it's hardly finished at all or they're starting over again, no doubt Mearls and Cook will be burning the candle at both ends and in "death march" mode.