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Author Topic: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)  (Read 1795 times)

GeekyBugle

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Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

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Jam The MF

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2022, 02:09:05 PM »
There's actually a fan made 3.5 version of the setting, if that's of interest to anyone. https://athas.org

Link saved.  Thank you.
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Redshirt451

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2022, 04:13:49 PM »
There's actually a fan made 3.5 version of the setting, if that's of interest to anyone. https://athas.org

Link saved.  Thank you.

Of course. On a similar note, these are two attempts to convert Dark Sun to 5e. Can't vouch for their quality, but they look well put together. https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LX4yHeg3_fD-cb5AYlb, https://darksun5e-1.obsidianportal.com

Jaeger

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2022, 04:55:48 PM »
OSE fan made conversion with downloadable PDFs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/wooo5p/final_revisions_to_the_dark_sun_ose_conversion/

I'd advise anyone interested to download this right away like I did. Fantastically good stuff.

And even though it is totally done for free - I do not see it lasting once WotC eventually becomes aware of it. It's just too good...
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BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2022, 05:45:04 PM »
Has anyone else made any effort towards an open source clone that isn’t owned by WotC? I just wanna know in advance

GeekyBugle

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2022, 05:45:44 PM »
Has anyone else made any effort towards an open source clone that isn’t owned by WotC? I just wanna know in advance

Not that I know off no.

Edited to add:

Not sure if OGL but...

https://sites.google.com/site/thefiendish/Home/under-the-dying-sun
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 06:11:00 PM by GeekyBugle »
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2022, 09:11:52 AM »
Has anyone else made any effort towards an open source clone that isn’t owned by WotC? I just wanna know in advance

Not that I know off no.

Edited to add:

Not sure if OGL but...

https://sites.google.com/site/thefiendish/Home/under-the-dying-sun
Okay, that looks like it hits many key points of Dark Sun, like the reckless use of magic causing ecological catastrophe. Also, the author intends for the world to actually be Mars. I was thinking "why not use Barsoom itself (since several of the books are public domain already and there are some unofficial Barsoom ttrpgs)" and add whatever Dark Sun has that it doesn't? This is basically that, altho I wish it had a more lenient copyright license

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2022, 09:55:13 AM »
I have a few ideas for open source settings to break up the WotC monopoly, actually. So, what concepts need settings? I can think of *punk (DungeonPunk, SteamPunk, whatever), multiverse adventures, fantasy space travel, fantasy mech warfare, sword & planet... I guess scifi too: bug hunts, bug wars, space opera, cyberpunk... what do you guys think deserves attention?

GeekyBugle

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2022, 10:52:20 AM »
I have a few ideas for open source settings to break up the WotC monopoly, actually. So, what concepts need settings? I can think of *punk (DungeonPunk, SteamPunk, whatever), multiverse adventures, fantasy space travel, fantasy mech warfare, sword & planet... I guess scifi too: bug hunts, bug wars, space opera, cyberpunk... what do you guys think deserves attention?

I think this deserves it's own thread.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Jam The MF

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Monero

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2022, 04:40:33 PM »
Has anyone actually tried those OSE rules to see if everything is legit and makes sense?

Corolinth

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2022, 06:33:09 PM »
I never played 4e, and have only given a glance at a PDF of the book, but they shoehorned Dragonborn, Eladrin and Tieflings—none of which are really appropriate or relevant to the setting—and expected you to use standard stats for dwarves, elves, half-elves and halfling, rather than provide setting-specific ones, when all of those races are supposed to be significantly changed in Dark Sun. They only include stats for Muls and Thri-kreen, which had no penalties to Intelligence, and Muls got a bonus to Wisdom for some reason.
I clipped the rest of your post, because I don't have much to say about it.

The shoehorning of races into all settings is something that has irked me for quite a while, but it's typical of WotC era D&D. Their authors are so clever and imaginative making up new races, but apparently aren't clever and imaginative enough to make up a new setting to house them all. For all the dumb stuff Paizo did, at least they made up their own world to cram it all into.

The Dark Sun version of races is something that was done in 2nd edition to play up the danger of the setting. You ended up with higher ability scores because the weak get culled. That's a valid design choice, but if everything is stronger and you have bigger numbers to match, how is that different from just using the standard numbers? From 3rd edition onward, I can see why the preference was to just use the standard rules. Also, if I remember, a major component of Dark Sun races wasn't ability score modifiers, but actually using different dice rolling methods to generate the ability scores in the first place. Point buy became far more popular during 3rd edition in order to attempt to balance parties, so by the time you get to 4th edition, using standard races starts looking like a good idea.

I can also see how, from a fan perspective, that makes it stop being Dark Sun, and turns it into a shit sandwich pretending to be Dark Sun.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2022, 07:42:14 PM »
Not every setting needs to support every single race and class. Dark Sun in particular stands out precisely because it changes up class assumptions! For example: arcane magic is hugely distrusted because it caused an ecological catastrophe, prevalent psionics is a core aspect of the setting, and metal weapons don’t really exist.

In 5e, none of that works. I expect they’ll either ignore DS, or mutilate it beyond recognition.

VisionStorm

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2022, 07:47:18 PM »
I never played 4e, and have only given a glance at a PDF of the book, but they shoehorned Dragonborn, Eladrin and Tieflings—none of which are really appropriate or relevant to the setting—and expected you to use standard stats for dwarves, elves, half-elves and halfling, rather than provide setting-specific ones, when all of those races are supposed to be significantly changed in Dark Sun. They only include stats for Muls and Thri-kreen, which had no penalties to Intelligence, and Muls got a bonus to Wisdom for some reason.
I clipped the rest of your post, because I don't have much to say about it.

The shoehorning of races into all settings is something that has irked me for quite a while, but it's typical of WotC era D&D. Their authors are so clever and imaginative making up new races, but apparently aren't clever and imaginative enough to make up a new setting to house them all. For all the dumb stuff Paizo did, at least they made up their own world to cram it all into.

The Dark Sun version of races is something that was done in 2nd edition to play up the danger of the setting. You ended up with higher ability scores because the weak get culled. That's a valid design choice, but if everything is stronger and you have bigger numbers to match, how is that different from just using the standard numbers? From 3rd edition onward, I can see why the preference was to just use the standard rules. Also, if I remember, a major component of Dark Sun races wasn't ability score modifiers, but actually using different dice rolling methods to generate the ability scores in the first place. Point buy became far more popular during 3rd edition in order to attempt to balance parties, so by the time you get to 4th edition, using standard races starts looking like a good idea.

I can also see how, from a fan perspective, that makes it stop being Dark Sun, and turns it into a shit sandwich pretending to be Dark Sun.

Dark Sun races didn't just have different ability modifiers, but different racial traits altogether. Ability Score generation was a different deal, and I agree that giving everyone higher scores cuz the world is tougher undermines the core premise, making the world less deadly rather than deadlier. But the way Dark Sun used racial ability modifiers made the differences between the races more pronounced. And the traits that each race got were specific to the way they adapted to the world, and deviated significantly from standard racial abilities.

Elves got increased speed and could run the whole day. Half-elves got sway with animals and survival skills as a result of being outcasts who had to fend for themselves. Dwarves had their Focus, etc. All of this stuff made each race play differently than standard counterparts from other worlds, and helped highlight what life in Dark Sun was like.

VisionStorm

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Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2022, 08:00:58 PM »
Not every setting needs to support every single race and class. Dark Sun in particular stands out precisely because it changes up class assumptions! For example: arcane magic is hugely distrusted because it caused an ecological catastrophe, prevalent psionics is a core aspect of the setting, and metal weapons don’t really exist.

In 5e, none of that works. I expect they’ll either ignore DS, or mutilate it beyond recognition.

RE: Arcane Magic. Distrust of it was so pronounced in the setting, Dark Sun Bards didn't even get magic. Instead they got expanded thief skills and the ability to create poisons, cuz Bards in the world were often assassins. In 4e they got their magic back IIRC.

Granted, these changes made bards kinda redundant compared to thieves/ rogues from a mechanical point of view, but they still helped highlight stylistic differences in the world. I can already see them bringing back paladins, even though they make no thematic sense and Dark Sun has no connection to the Outer Planes, were paladins get their power from.