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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Kerstmanneke82 on September 21, 2022, 12:59:27 PM

Title: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Kerstmanneke82 on September 21, 2022, 12:59:27 PM
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Darkwind on September 21, 2022, 01:11:08 PM
I actually read somewhere they are rebooting Dark Sun in 23 or 24, I forget. It will be an army of sensitivity writers, cultural coordinators, DIE consultants, and various blue-haired problem glass wearing hamplanet SJWs endlessly debating each other.

At the end, it will be a watered down, milquetoast, pussified product that probably bears close to no relation to the gritty grim dark type setting that Dark Sun was suppose to be. It isn't possible for it to be otherwise because NPCs cannot break their programming under any circumstance, they short circuit first. Nuance, subtlety, and situational context are beyond their capability so it will be hot garbage.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Jam The MF on September 21, 2022, 03:28:57 PM
We need an OSR hack of the original Dark Sun, titled "Black Sun".  Change all the names slightly, to avoid lawsuits.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: VisionStorm on September 21, 2022, 03:55:32 PM
I actually read somewhere they are rebooting Dark Sun in 23 or 24, I forget. It will be an army of sensitivity writers, cultural coordinators, DIE consultants, and various blue-haired problem glass wearing hamplanet SJWs endlessly debating each other.

At the end, it will be a watered down, milquetoast, pussified product that probably bears close to no relation to the gritty grim dark type setting that Dark Sun was suppose to be. It isn't possible for it to be otherwise because NPCs cannot break their programming under any circumstance, they short circuit first. Nuance, subtlety, and situational context are beyond their capability so it will be hot garbage.

Pretty much.

They will get rid of slavery, Muls will no longer be dumb, because Int modifiers are racist, and they will try to shoehorn even more races than they already did back in 4e, only now they'll try to shoehorn a bunch of irrelevant classes and subclasses as well, cuz everything in the core books has to make it into every setting and nothing can be setting-specific (unlike the OG Dark Sun). It'll be a silly Tumblrina wearing a Dark Sun shaped skin suit a couple sizes too small.

Kinda makes me glad it'll never happen. Planescape will have to suffer instead.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: PencilBoy99 on September 21, 2022, 07:36:27 PM
There's a OSE very cool fan made version. It's on the Facebook Dark Sun site I think.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 21, 2022, 07:53:32 PM
There's a OSE very cool fan made version. It's on the Facebook Dark Sun site I think.

It's also on reddit in case you don't have a facebook account. Not sure if it's against the rules to share the link here.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: jeff37923 on September 21, 2022, 08:16:03 PM
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!

Like shit.

4e Dark Sun was crap and 5e Dark Sun would be more of the same.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 22, 2022, 04:24:30 AM
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!

Like shit.

4e Dark Sun was crap and 5e Dark Sun would be more of the same.

I rather liked 4th ed Dark Sun. I actually got to GM it. I can't say I'm a fan of 4th edition, but most of the kinks had been worked out by the time Dark Sun came out. It was mostly faithful to the original setting, with a few tweaks. And they smartly set it just after Kalaks' death, instead of the monstrosity of the "updated" setting with all the Cerulean Storm nonsense.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Jam The MF on September 22, 2022, 05:30:03 AM
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!

Like shit.

4e Dark Sun was crap and 5e Dark Sun would be more of the same.

I rather liked 4th ed Dark Sun. I actually got to GM it. I can't say I'm a fan of 4th edition, but most of the kinks had been worked out by the time Dark Sun came out. It was mostly faithful to the original setting, with a few tweaks. And they smartly set it just after Kalaks' death, instead of the monstrosity of the "updated" setting with all the Cerulean Storm nonsense.


I have the 4E Dark Sun Creature Catalog.  There are a few crazy monsters in there.  It paints the picture of a setting that is working against you, all the time.  No easy street to rest upon.  Just a need to focus upon survival.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: VisionStorm on September 22, 2022, 09:40:17 AM
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!

Like shit.

4e Dark Sun was crap and 5e Dark Sun would be more of the same.

I rather liked 4th ed Dark Sun. I actually got to GM it. I can't say I'm a fan of 4th edition, but most of the kinks had been worked out by the time Dark Sun came out. It was mostly faithful to the original setting, with a few tweaks. And they smartly set it just after Kalaks' death, instead of the monstrosity of the "updated" setting with all the Cerulean Storm nonsense.

I never played 4e, and have only given a glance at a PDF of the book, but they shoehorned Dragonborn, Eladrin and Tieflings—none of which are really appropriate or relevant to the setting—and expected you to use standard stats for dwarves, elves, half-elves and halfling, rather than provide setting-specific ones, when all of those races are supposed to be significantly changed in Dark Sun. They only include stats for Muls and Thri-kreen, which had no penalties to Intelligence, and Muls got a bonus to Wisdom for some reason.

Then they also included notes for shoehorning other D&D races as well, giving tacit encouragement to allow the whole kitchen sink in, when Dark Sun explicitly had a race purging Cleansing War as part of its backstory, where human champions tried to wipe out every other race (and succeeded with Goblins, Pixies, Gnomes and Orcs, at the very least), meaning that it shouldn't just include every traditional D&D race. The ones in the original material were the ones that survived the Cleansing Wars and managed to thrive.

Also, Dark Sun is not even connected to the Outer Planes, so stuff like Tieflings or demonic creatures make no sense. Genasi at least are more plausible, because Athas is deeply connected to the Elemental Planes, but there was no mention of fairy stuff in the original, and I suspect that the world's connection to the Feywild (which didn't even exist back in the setting's original release) would be as tenuous as its connection to any planes other than the Elemental Planes, which are the only planes the world has a strong connection to. Which means that Eladrin make no sense in it either.

If they already strayed so far in 4e, I can only imagine how bad it would be in 5e.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: VisionStorm on September 22, 2022, 11:27:47 AM
DP
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 22, 2022, 11:38:00 AM
We need an OSR hack of the original Dark Sun, titled "Black Sun".  Change all the names slightly, to avoid lawsuits.
Even changing the names isn't necessarily going to avoid potential lawsuits if the setting is similar enough. Dark Sun has a lot of original aspects that would be suspicious if used together: arcane magic blighting the landscape, the prevalence of psionics (and divine magic), the dearth of metals like bronze or iron reshaping commerce, the city-states ruled by dragon-kings who ascended to their state a la Chinese dragons, etc.

I know A Princess of Mars and other planetary romance/sword & planet tales were a huge influence on Dark Sun, so it might make more sense to market the OSR hack as a sword & planet setting.

To add to your original, I also wish there were OSR equivalents of the other unique settings. A DungeonPunk setting, a fantasy Sliders setting, a fantasy space travel setting...
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 22, 2022, 12:20:47 PM
deleted
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Batjon on September 22, 2022, 12:34:07 PM
Woke Dark Sun is NOT Dark Sun and has NO appeal for me.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Redshirt451 on September 22, 2022, 01:03:18 PM
There's actually a fan made 3.5 version of the setting, if that's of interest to anyone. https://athas.org
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 22, 2022, 02:02:37 PM
OSE fan made conversion with downloadable PDFs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/wooo5p/final_revisions_to_the_dark_sun_ose_conversion/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/wooo5p/final_revisions_to_the_dark_sun_ose_conversion/)
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Jam The MF on September 22, 2022, 02:09:05 PM
There's actually a fan made 3.5 version of the setting, if that's of interest to anyone. https://athas.org

Link saved.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Redshirt451 on September 22, 2022, 04:13:49 PM
There's actually a fan made 3.5 version of the setting, if that's of interest to anyone. https://athas.org

Link saved.  Thank you.

Of course. On a similar note, these are two attempts to convert Dark Sun to 5e. Can't vouch for their quality, but they look well put together. https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LX4yHeg3_fD-cb5AYlb, https://darksun5e-1.obsidianportal.com. 
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Jaeger on September 22, 2022, 04:55:48 PM
OSE fan made conversion with downloadable PDFs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/wooo5p/final_revisions_to_the_dark_sun_ose_conversion/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/wooo5p/final_revisions_to_the_dark_sun_ose_conversion/)

I'd advise anyone interested to download this right away like I did. Fantastically good stuff.

And even though it is totally done for free - I do not see it lasting once WotC eventually becomes aware of it. It's just too good...
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 22, 2022, 05:45:04 PM
Has anyone else made any effort towards an open source clone that isn’t owned by WotC? I just wanna know in advance
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 22, 2022, 05:45:44 PM
Has anyone else made any effort towards an open source clone that isn’t owned by WotC? I just wanna know in advance

Not that I know off no.

Edited to add:

Not sure if OGL but...

https://sites.google.com/site/thefiendish/Home/under-the-dying-sun (https://sites.google.com/site/thefiendish/Home/under-the-dying-sun)
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 23, 2022, 09:11:52 AM
Has anyone else made any effort towards an open source clone that isn’t owned by WotC? I just wanna know in advance

Not that I know off no.

Edited to add:

Not sure if OGL but...

https://sites.google.com/site/thefiendish/Home/under-the-dying-sun (https://sites.google.com/site/thefiendish/Home/under-the-dying-sun)
Okay, that looks like it hits many key points of Dark Sun, like the reckless use of magic causing ecological catastrophe. Also, the author intends for the world to actually be Mars. I was thinking "why not use Barsoom itself (since several of the books are public domain already and there are some unofficial Barsoom ttrpgs)" and add whatever Dark Sun has that it doesn't? This is basically that, altho I wish it had a more lenient copyright license
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 23, 2022, 09:55:13 AM
I have a few ideas for open source settings to break up the WotC monopoly, actually. So, what concepts need settings? I can think of *punk (DungeonPunk, SteamPunk, whatever), multiverse adventures, fantasy space travel, fantasy mech warfare, sword & planet... I guess scifi too: bug hunts, bug wars, space opera, cyberpunk... what do you guys think deserves attention?
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 23, 2022, 10:52:20 AM
I have a few ideas for open source settings to break up the WotC monopoly, actually. So, what concepts need settings? I can think of *punk (DungeonPunk, SteamPunk, whatever), multiverse adventures, fantasy space travel, fantasy mech warfare, sword & planet... I guess scifi too: bug hunts, bug wars, space opera, cyberpunk... what do you guys think deserves attention?

I think this deserves it's own thread.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Jam The MF on September 23, 2022, 02:21:30 PM
OSE fan made conversion with downloadable PDFs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/wooo5p/final_revisions_to_the_dark_sun_ose_conversion/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSun/comments/wooo5p/final_revisions_to_the_dark_sun_ose_conversion/)

Link saved.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Monero on September 23, 2022, 04:40:33 PM
Has anyone actually tried those OSE rules to see if everything is legit and makes sense?
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Corolinth on September 23, 2022, 06:33:09 PM
I never played 4e, and have only given a glance at a PDF of the book, but they shoehorned Dragonborn, Eladrin and Tieflings—none of which are really appropriate or relevant to the setting—and expected you to use standard stats for dwarves, elves, half-elves and halfling, rather than provide setting-specific ones, when all of those races are supposed to be significantly changed in Dark Sun. They only include stats for Muls and Thri-kreen, which had no penalties to Intelligence, and Muls got a bonus to Wisdom for some reason.
I clipped the rest of your post, because I don't have much to say about it.

The shoehorning of races into all settings is something that has irked me for quite a while, but it's typical of WotC era D&D. Their authors are so clever and imaginative making up new races, but apparently aren't clever and imaginative enough to make up a new setting to house them all. For all the dumb stuff Paizo did, at least they made up their own world to cram it all into.

The Dark Sun version of races is something that was done in 2nd edition to play up the danger of the setting. You ended up with higher ability scores because the weak get culled. That's a valid design choice, but if everything is stronger and you have bigger numbers to match, how is that different from just using the standard numbers? From 3rd edition onward, I can see why the preference was to just use the standard rules. Also, if I remember, a major component of Dark Sun races wasn't ability score modifiers, but actually using different dice rolling methods to generate the ability scores in the first place. Point buy became far more popular during 3rd edition in order to attempt to balance parties, so by the time you get to 4th edition, using standard races starts looking like a good idea.

I can also see how, from a fan perspective, that makes it stop being Dark Sun, and turns it into a shit sandwich pretending to be Dark Sun.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 23, 2022, 07:42:14 PM
Not every setting needs to support every single race and class. Dark Sun in particular stands out precisely because it changes up class assumptions! For example: arcane magic is hugely distrusted because it caused an ecological catastrophe, prevalent psionics is a core aspect of the setting, and metal weapons don’t really exist.

In 5e, none of that works. I expect they’ll either ignore DS, or mutilate it beyond recognition.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: VisionStorm on September 23, 2022, 07:47:18 PM
I never played 4e, and have only given a glance at a PDF of the book, but they shoehorned Dragonborn, Eladrin and Tieflings—none of which are really appropriate or relevant to the setting—and expected you to use standard stats for dwarves, elves, half-elves and halfling, rather than provide setting-specific ones, when all of those races are supposed to be significantly changed in Dark Sun. They only include stats for Muls and Thri-kreen, which had no penalties to Intelligence, and Muls got a bonus to Wisdom for some reason.
I clipped the rest of your post, because I don't have much to say about it.

The shoehorning of races into all settings is something that has irked me for quite a while, but it's typical of WotC era D&D. Their authors are so clever and imaginative making up new races, but apparently aren't clever and imaginative enough to make up a new setting to house them all. For all the dumb stuff Paizo did, at least they made up their own world to cram it all into.

The Dark Sun version of races is something that was done in 2nd edition to play up the danger of the setting. You ended up with higher ability scores because the weak get culled. That's a valid design choice, but if everything is stronger and you have bigger numbers to match, how is that different from just using the standard numbers? From 3rd edition onward, I can see why the preference was to just use the standard rules. Also, if I remember, a major component of Dark Sun races wasn't ability score modifiers, but actually using different dice rolling methods to generate the ability scores in the first place. Point buy became far more popular during 3rd edition in order to attempt to balance parties, so by the time you get to 4th edition, using standard races starts looking like a good idea.

I can also see how, from a fan perspective, that makes it stop being Dark Sun, and turns it into a shit sandwich pretending to be Dark Sun.

Dark Sun races didn't just have different ability modifiers, but different racial traits altogether. Ability Score generation was a different deal, and I agree that giving everyone higher scores cuz the world is tougher undermines the core premise, making the world less deadly rather than deadlier. But the way Dark Sun used racial ability modifiers made the differences between the races more pronounced. And the traits that each race got were specific to the way they adapted to the world, and deviated significantly from standard racial abilities.

Elves got increased speed and could run the whole day. Half-elves got sway with animals and survival skills as a result of being outcasts who had to fend for themselves. Dwarves had their Focus, etc. All of this stuff made each race play differently than standard counterparts from other worlds, and helped highlight what life in Dark Sun was like.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: VisionStorm on September 23, 2022, 08:00:58 PM
Not every setting needs to support every single race and class. Dark Sun in particular stands out precisely because it changes up class assumptions! For example: arcane magic is hugely distrusted because it caused an ecological catastrophe, prevalent psionics is a core aspect of the setting, and metal weapons don’t really exist.

In 5e, none of that works. I expect they’ll either ignore DS, or mutilate it beyond recognition.

RE: Arcane Magic. Distrust of it was so pronounced in the setting, Dark Sun Bards didn't even get magic. Instead they got expanded thief skills and the ability to create poisons, cuz Bards in the world were often assassins. In 4e they got their magic back IIRC.

Granted, these changes made bards kinda redundant compared to thieves/ rogues from a mechanical point of view, but they still helped highlight stylistic differences in the world. I can already see them bringing back paladins, even though they make no thematic sense and Dark Sun has no connection to the Outer Planes, were paladins get their power from.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Jam The MF on September 24, 2022, 12:56:49 AM
The Pact of the Dragon of Tyr Warlock, would be very popular in 5E.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: DM_Curt on September 24, 2022, 07:59:54 AM
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!
How would it look?
-Rules for stone and bone weapons.
-New races and subclasses, while also allowing all races and subclasses, to continue the Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
-Delete all slavery references ("Fighting against slavery is too hard, because then you have to reference slavery, and referencing slavery is bad because you are glorifying slavery so you can't fight against slavery because...<30 GOTO START>"  -NPC )
-It's all about Climate Change and Magical Pollution. Maybe Defilers are agents of magical Evil Oil Companies.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: jgants on September 24, 2022, 09:14:21 AM
I'm about halfway through a 5e campaign using Theros and have thought about a Dark Sun one myself. I'm of two minds about going the 5e route or the 2e route.

The argument for 5e is that the players are used to it and like the more modern D&D-isms such as everything using the same type of die roll and having tons of mechanical character build options. Also, as I look at Dark Sun, I can see that out of all the old settings, Dark Sun lends itself best to the "moar powerz!" approach of modern D&D. So, I started putting together some notes on what it might look like for 5e. I know other people did conversions, but I'd want to do my own interpretation because even TSR Dark Sun was only good for the first boxed set or so. I'm still working through classes and stalled out a bit.

The reason I stalled is my usual problem - I've grown to dislike modern D&D (anything from 3e on). I'm just not a fan of the new way they do spells, or hit points / healing, or all the powers / character options. Modern D&D versions stuff characters so full of powers and healing that the only kind of game they support well is a dungeon with X encounters per day which isn't always how I want to run a campaign. It's not that I can't run a less combat-focused game, it just doesn't work as well when all the players want to use all those cool combat abilities. In that sense, I prefer 4e over 5e because at least it leaned in to the whole "nothing but dungeon battles" focus. And then there's the digital tools, which I also find very limiting as a DM. The players end up relying on them to manage their characters because of all the extra character build complexity, but then I either have to do everything by the book (and almost by every book WotC produces) or I'm spending a ton of extra time and effort working against the grain to try and explain what content I'm using / not using and how to handle it when a rule or item or whatever isn't supported by the app. The app thing soured me on 4e once rules randomly changed between sessions (which they appear to want to do again for One D&D). Anyway, what it means is that my 5e version will need to be scaled back a bit and use some AD&D-isms so that I can run the game I want, and they won't need (or be able to use) the app.

So, then I moved back to looking at AD&D 2e again and seeing how I might adjust that to present the material in a way the players might go for with my own custom-written player's handbook. They'll definitely want ascending AC with attack bonuses over descending AC and THAC0. And I'll probably need to give a few more character options. But AD&D has its flaws, too. The first is that proficiencies are a fairly poor skill system (most RPGs do that better). The second is that AD&D psionics rules are dreadful. I'm still debating how I want to handle the skills/proficiencies thing but for psionics I'm just going to use the Palladium rules instead (circa original Rifts).

Once I complete the AD&D version, I think I'll go back and see if I can finish out the 5e version. Then I can compare to see if I'd prefer a more D&D 5e approach with some AD&D-isms or a more AD&D approach with some D&D 5e-isms.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on September 24, 2022, 10:27:14 AM
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!
How would it look?
-Rules for stone and bone weapons.
-New races and subclasses, while also allowing all races and subclasses, to continue the Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
-Delete all slavery references ("Fighting against slavery is too hard, because then you have to reference slavery, and referencing slavery is bad because you are glorifying slavery so you can't fight against slavery because...<30 GOTO START>"  -NPC )
-It's all about Climate Change and Magical Pollution. Maybe Defilers are agents of magical Evil Oil Companies.
Well, at the time Dark Sun did allow for all the races and classes in the Player’s Handbook. Saying Dragonborns, Tieflings, Ardlings, whatever aren’t appropriate because they were added in subsequent editions of the PHB is an arbitrary criticism. I think you would have a stronger argument if you said “maybe Tolkienesque races and classes, much less D&D originals, were never appropriate for Dark Sun in the first place?” I think DS should have an entirely original set of races and classes that better fits what the original designers were going for rather than shoehorning the entire PHB.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: GeekyBugle on September 24, 2022, 12:01:11 PM
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!
How would it look?
-Rules for stone and bone weapons.
-New races and subclasses, while also allowing all races and subclasses, to continue the Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
-Delete all slavery references ("Fighting against slavery is too hard, because then you have to reference slavery, and referencing slavery is bad because you are glorifying slavery so you can't fight against slavery because...<30 GOTO START>"  -NPC )
-It's all about Climate Change and Magical Pollution. Maybe Defilers are agents of magical Evil Oil Companies.
Well, at the time Dark Sun did allow for all the races and classes in the Player’s Handbook. Saying Dragonborns, Tieflings, Ardlings, whatever aren’t appropriate because they were added in subsequent editions of the PHB is an arbitrary criticism. I think you would have a stronger argument if you said “maybe Tolkienesque races and classes, much less D&D originals, were never appropriate for Dark Sun in the first place?” I think DS should have an entirely original set of races and classes that better fits what the original designers were going for rather than shoehorning the entire PHB.

How do you get tieflings without access to the planes?
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: VisionStorm on September 24, 2022, 12:20:42 PM
Just imagine.

The year is 2024, sixth edition is on the horizon, if that is still a thing. They've done Eberron, Planescape, Spelljammer... and they want to send 5th edition off with... Dark Sun.

Now keep in mind, ever since Athasspace turned into Doomspace and the Hadozee emergency, chances are indeed very slim it'll ever come out. But what if it did, what do you think it'll look like?

Fire away!
How would it look?
-Rules for stone and bone weapons.
-New races and subclasses, while also allowing all races and subclasses, to continue the Kitchen Sink Syndrome.
-Delete all slavery references ("Fighting against slavery is too hard, because then you have to reference slavery, and referencing slavery is bad because you are glorifying slavery so you can't fight against slavery because...<30 GOTO START>"  -NPC )
-It's all about Climate Change and Magical Pollution. Maybe Defilers are agents of magical Evil Oil Companies.
Well, at the time Dark Sun did allow for all the races and classes in the Player’s Handbook. Saying Dragonborns, Tieflings, Ardlings, whatever aren’t appropriate because they were added in subsequent editions of the PHB is an arbitrary criticism. I think you would have a stronger argument if you said “maybe Tolkienesque races and classes, much less D&D originals, were never appropriate for Dark Sun in the first place?” I think DS should have an entirely original set of races and classes that better fits what the original designers were going for rather than shoehorning the entire PHB.

This is incorrect. OG Dark Sun didn't allow access to Gnomes or Paladins, which were included in the PHB. And while technically not standard playable races in 2e, Orcs, Goblins, and Pixies were also explicitly mentioned in some of the source material (the novels at least, possibly some supplements) as being wiped out during the Cleaning Wars. Athas also has no direct connection any planes other than the elemental planes, so planar races other than Genasi make so sense in the setting.

Also, basically every class and races allowed from the PHB was changed and adapted to Dark Sun rather than used as is.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Tasty_Wind on September 25, 2022, 03:48:29 AM
Aren’t Psionics a big part of Dark Sun? And 5E doesn’t have psionics? (And I can’t imagine WotC putting them back in for 1D&D)
And how has WotC handled other legacy titles like Curse Of Strahd, Spelljammer, Tomb of Annihilation, etc. ?
It’s a sad day when you would rather watch beloved titles slide into obscurity, rather than to see how the current holders would ruin it, but here we are.
Title: Re: Modern Dark Sun (for fifth edition, one d&d or whatever they want to call it)
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 25, 2022, 03:18:33 PM
Aren’t Psionics a big part of Dark Sun? And 5E doesn’t have psionics? (And I can’t imagine WotC putting them back in for 1D&D)
And how has WotC handled other legacy titles like Curse Of Strahd, Spelljammer, Tomb of Annihilation, etc. ?
It’s a sad day when you would rather watch beloved titles slide into obscurity, rather than to see how the current holders would ruin it, but here we are.

Yes. Dark Sun pretty much brought Psionics back into D&D 2nd ed, and there are many facets of the setting that are psionics specific, like a faction of psionics and how psionics are necessary to unlock 10th level Wizard spells.