Quote from: Jaeger on January 01, 2022, 10:21:44 PM
It's not just larger parties. Straight-up speed of combat resolution at the table is also a worthy goal.

In my star wars homebrew system (count successes Die pool, d6 dice, success on 5-6) I had the PC's roll for their defense.

Now I don't, I just have the PC's and NPC's roll to the equal or over a target number DV (Defense value) Which is just the average roll the PC would make for their defense anyway. i.e. If the number of dice they would have rolled for defense is 6 then their DV = 2.

And I'm not looking back.  Why?

Its not just that 4-5 pc's have one less roll each per round. All the NPC's also make one less roll each per round.

My PC's will typically go against storm troopers or other bad guy mooks 2-3 times their number. One less roll per round from everyone adds up, and speeds things up noticeably.

Do I loose some granularity from PC's/NPC's making heroic rolls or bombing out miserably? Yes. But I have found those trends to balance out in the offense rolls at the table anyway.

And most importantly: In play, at the table, my players don't notice the difference during the heat of the action.

Even better, the guy who actually has to run the game (me), now makes only half the rolls I used to during combat.

Since this is a homebrew let me suggest something even more radical; just have the PCs roll everything.

Switch the stormtroopers to not only static defenses, but to static attacks and let the players rolls their defense checks vs. those. The players feel like they have control of their fate (it's weird, but being the one to roll a random has that effect) and you've unloaded even more of the dice rolling from your plate.

You can keep rolling for major villain NPCs (Darth Vader gets to roll) and use rolls for allies of the PCs if you've got a larger battle so you've got randomness in the outcomes, but basically, leave the rolling to the PCs.

This is basically what I ended up doing in my own system as it kept the players more involved and meant I just had to focus on the actions of 5+ creatures at once and on descriptions of events rather than having to roll for all those things.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 02, 2022, 05:46:34 AM
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Since this is a homebrew let me suggest something even more radical; just have the PCs roll everything.

Switch the stormtroopers to not only static defenses, but to static attacks and let the players rolls their defense checks vs. those. The players feel like they have control of their fate (it's weird, but being the one to roll a random has that effect) and you've unloaded even more of the dice rolling from your plate.

You can keep rolling for major villain NPCs (Darth Vader gets to roll) and use rolls for allies of the PCs if you've got a larger battle so you've got randomness in the outcomes, but basically, leave the rolling to the PCs.

This is basically what I ended up doing in my own system as it kept the players more involved and meant I just had to focus on the actions of 5+ creatures at once and on descriptions of events rather than having to roll for all those things.

I get why some GM's would prefer that kind of set up.

I actually like rolling for the bad guys. My players like it even better when I roll badly; I got Vader killed that way... And the combat time is the same.

IMHO another great tool to cut down combat time is not having the bad guys (aside from major villains) be made the same way as the PC's.

My stormtrooper stat block is a few key stats on a 3x5 card - with notes for when I up them to Elite troopers. They don't have hero points, armor, or as much wound points the way a PC would.

I do this for genre emulation. Like in the films the protagonists can take on a lot of stormtroopers, but then the big bad shows up he gets their undivided attention.

Games like RQ where everything is done to the same scale as the PC's tend to have longer combats, with the number of bad guys I throw at PC's quickly going into the 'deadly' TPK territory.

In RQ defense that type of universal stat range for a game enforces a different type of genre aesthetic than I am looking for in a Star Wars game.

QuoteSince this is a homebrew let me suggest something even more radical; just have the PCs roll everything.

Switch the stormtroopers to not only static defenses, but to static attacks and let the players rolls their defense checks vs. those. The players feel like they have control of their fate (it's weird, but being the one to roll a random has that effect) and you've unloaded even more of the dice rolling from your plate.

Beware: The Tacical Wargame Storygame

Quote from: Wrath of God on January 05, 2022, 04:08:03 PM
Beware: The Tacical Wargame Storygame

You must have missed the one that came out of the Forge about being British seaman and officers on ships of the line during the Napoleonic wars:

Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.

I hear it had a small but enthusiastic following with some storygame larper's... 

After discussing it a bit in various forums im a bit more okay now than before on things if hit points also represent your overall defensive ability. Dex being dodge essentially so getting hit is forcing you to block or parry type deal. But still if attacker and defender roll at the same time I haven't really noticed any significant impact on speed of play.

Things that slow the game down in my experience is not enough damage on a successful hit compared to the amount of hit points a character may have, out of turn actions and consulting various charts or tables. And sometimes games that allow for too many attacks and damage dice ala pathfinder. Had a fighter type once who dual wielded, he was a slow counter and i usually went on to the next person while he counted up all his dice unless it was important to know if a creature died or not.

QuoteYou must have missed the one that came out of the Forge about being British seaman and officers on ships of the line during the Napoleonic wars:

Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.

I hear it had a small but enthusiastic following with some storygame larper's...

I hope your joking... alas after Monsterhearts...

Quote from: Jaeger on January 01, 2022, 10:21:44 PM
IMHO interesting combat can be done in several ways. Even with "AC" based systems.

It is simply a matter of not locking up viable combat options in specific character classes.

This stood out to me. I agree, a lot of games do lock up to many options in specific classes, or specific feats. Why not let anyone bull rush or disarm etc someone with similar chances? This gives everyone options and can make things more dynamic.

It's a reason I've never been overly found of weapon specializations. Characters get "locked" in to certain approaches and patterns of play. If you find a cool Trident, why shouldn't your character be able to practice with it for a couple weeks of downtime and then be just as efficient with it?

Quote from: Wrath of God on January 05, 2022, 09:05:56 PM

QuoteYou must have missed the one that came out of the Forge about being British seaman and officers on ships of the line during the Napoleonic wars:

Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.

I hear it had a small but enthusiastic following with some storygame larper's...

I hope your joking... alas after Monsterhearts...

Eh, I've played Monsterhearts briefly at a con, picked up a copy of 1e, and sell 2e on my marketplace (link to that).

It's weird sure, and not for everyone—there's a reason I have never run it for one of my groups—however, it is actually emulating a particular type of story. If your not into high school monsters shows where things are really messy (i.e. you accidentally killed your friend - who was sleeping with your romantic interest, or you decide to get back at them by sleeping with their old flame) then give it a pass . . . but if you really like shows like Vampire Diaries, well it's probably for you.

Quote from: rytrasmi on December 12, 2021, 04:51:57 PM
Yeah, I know right. That's one of my beefs with D&D and OSR, a single number called AC does a lot of work. It apparently covers dodging, parrying, and blows that land but are blocked by armor. I don't know why this is, but I'm sure there's a historic reason.

I've always sort of attributed it to the idea of the one minute combat round, in which you only make one attack roll, but assume a cinematic exchange of movement, feints, strikes, parried blows, etc.

Quote from: Wrath of God on January 05, 2022, 09:05:56 PM

QuoteYou must have missed the one that came out of the Forge about being British seaman and officers on ships of the line during the Napoleonic wars:

Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash.

I hear it had a small but enthusiastic following with some storygame larper's...

I hope your joking... alas after Monsterhearts...

Completely made up.

But just the fact that at first glance it is impossible to tell if it was made up or not says all you needs to know about parts of the storygame movement...

Quote from: Thondor on January 06, 2022, 11:20:18 AM

Quote from: Jaeger on January 01, 2022, 10:21:44 PM
IMHO interesting combat can be done in several ways. Even with "AC" based systems.

It is simply a matter of not locking up viable combat options in specific character classes.

This stood out to me. I agree, a lot of games do lock up to many options in specific classes, or specific feats. Why not let anyone bull rush or disarm etc someone with similar chances? This gives everyone options and can make things more dynamic.
...

Yes, D&D is a big offender here. And is one of the reasons that I really don't like the universal Prof bonus increase it has.

You only need about 4-6 viable combat options that anyone can do to allow players to spot situations where "I hit it with my sword" is not the only actual choice for non-fighters in a combat.

Yes everyone can do all the same combat maneuvers - Fighters would just be better at them.

Ok, so maybe the fighter is the only one who will take a punt at grappling with the Death Knight, but just having the other party members feel that they won't get their asses handed to them for trying to disarm or trip an Orc can go a long way to having AC based combat systems feel and play much more dynamically.

Agree. In 3,5 it was really refreshing to use maneuvres in reliable manner. Alas to do it I had to be a weretiger, so there's that.
Nevertheless bull rushing golem way beyond our CR into portal was... cool.

QuoteBut just the fact that at first glance it is impossible to tell if it was made up or not says all you needs to know about parts of the storygame movement...

Well thankfully most PBTA/FITD/Cortex derived from storygaming movement abandoned insane Edwardsian principles.
Just as I think there's a lot OSR games abandoning D&D basic schemes, and that's for good