The Heavy Gear 20th Anniversary announcement made me think of this, because I very nearly bought HG back in the day but ultimately didn't, in part because of the concerns below.

Who's ever played one? I don't mean "a RPG that has mecha" like Rifts or even Traveller. I mean a RPG in which all or most players play mecha pilots and spend a significant amount of time inside the machines: Mechwarrior, Robotech, Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles, Mekton, etc.

What game did you play, and what's the system like?

What does a typical session and/or campaign looks like? Is it a mission-based, military squad deal? Is there a significant amount of play away from the battlefield, outside of the mecha?

I have played Jovian Chronicles, Cthulhutech and Remnants. All three use a mecha system that is a lot like the personal scale system, and are generally fast in combat. Of the three, Remnants is the best system.

Generally, the games swing between personal drama and mecha combat, not that much different from most fighter pilot, mythic fantasy or superhero campaigns that I have played in.

I've played Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, Mechwarrior/Battletech, Heavy Gear, and Cthulhutech.

I keep returning to Mekton, because its (mostly) elegant system, its slightly crunchy ability to make mechs of a variety of different styles and scales. It was a simple, but effective system with layers to make the mecha stuff fun and different enough from the ground/out of cockpit stuff. Yet still using the same system.

Cthulhutech has a system I'd warn people about--its poorly thought out, poorly researched, and basically garbage in terms of system design.

Heavy Gear is alright, with a few hiccups, I like its world and scale of mecha best, but the fact it didn't have the flexibility of Mekton is why Mekton keeps winning out for me.

Mechwarrior/Battletech is--uh, well a thing. I've never found its mecha rules fun or interesting except in video game interpretations, the actual tabletop game is beloved by many, but not by me. Bad rules, and excuses (Older editions had no called shots so you couldn't aim for the cockpit IIRC) layered on top a hoary old system that needs to be seriously skinned, pruned, and let to regrow.

What's the Mekton setting like? Which edition is best?

I've never played or run a mecha game, but I was wondering: has anybody here checked out Alephtar Games' BRP Mecha? And if so, what did you think of it?

Played Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, Battletech, d20 Mecha (Mecha Crusade from d20 Future , DragonMech, Iron Kingdoms, and BESM d20 Mecha), Robotech, and Jovian Chronicles.

Of all of the above, I keep coming back to Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, and Jovian Chronicles. Those three are the best with an Honorable Mention going out to Iron Kingdoms.

I came to mecha from an enjoyment of anime. I wanted to play in the same universe that had Robotech and Gundam style action going on. Battletech, Robotech, Mecha Crusade, and BESM d20 Mecha could not emulate the action of the anime and their appeal rapidly dissappeared.

DragonMech is D&D with giant robots shoehorned in, but it is so out-of-scale between PCs and mechs that it has trouble when they interact, which causes the game flow to become choppy and break down. Iron Kingdoms has the right scale between its steamjacks and the PCs so that while they are formidable opponents, they can still be defeated by PCs. The rich and just-detailed-enough background for their setting makes the Iron Kingdoms d20 setting the best for steampunk D&D with Mecha.

Mekton II, Mekton Zeta, and Jovian Chronicles are the winners for elegant rules which support anime mecha genre emulation while allowing incredible flexibility for Players and GMs. It should be noted that Jovian Chronicles got their start by being a setting for Mekton II. The Mekton series is built like a toolbox with a default setting, like Traveller, so while you can use the default - you can also do your own interpretation of the Pacific Rim movie if you like.

I've played Mechwarrior, and run Mechwarrior II, dabbled a little with Mekton-II+MTS, and a little bit of Heavy Gear/Silhouette (1st ed.)

The combat in Heavy Gear both personal and mecha is very realistic.  That is, if you hit something it's going to die/go boom, be almost completely crippled, or just get a mere flesh wound.  Armor does not ablate.  You punch a hole in something, then it breaks, period.  Mechs ('gears) do NOT own the battlefield.  They are a component of the battlefield.  An attack helo will eat Gears for lunch.  So will an MBT.  'gears in HG are like gun jeeps.  Fast, sprightly, and if used properly can be devastating in their own right.  Again, if used properly.  The silhouette system is a pretty lightweight RPG system that can be adapted to lots of other genres.  It's a d6+ modifiers all the way down...average skills and stats are in the 0 to 1 range, incredible skills and stats might rate a 2, and legendary this-guy-can't-be-real are 3 and beyond.  Meshes incredibly well with the mech system.  Tried to play a sort of The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly scenario, players wanted action all the time so it was really just a bunch of mech skirmishes strung together. :/

Mechwarrior 1 was so clunky I don't even think about it at all.  It barely meshed with the tabletop game.  I've often wondered if they bought someone's ideas because they wanted an RPG to go with Battletech.  IIRC it was largely d6 and occasionally percentile based.  Mechwarrior II was more elegant but still had holes big enough to walk an Atlas through.  Again, did not mesh well with the mech combat, but was slightly better.  d10 based.  I ran 3 MW2 modules, two of which were linked and all three were set in the Solaris-7 "game world" (it's the IS in miniature; a giant city with battlemech arenas in each, and five sectors of the city controlled by the 5 "great houses", each with its own culture, etc.)  They were all "investigation" Type games that led to big mech fights at the end, so actually not a lot of mech-jock stuff.

Mekton II, d10 based, meshed pretty well with the ungodly complicated mech combat system.  If you were willing to go full [strike]retard[/strike]anime, it really scratched the Macross/Gundam/Whatever itch pretty well as long as you could tolerate the math.  Like Champions for giant robots (there was a champions supplement called Robot Warrior that was awful).  Mekton-II/+MTS featured what is probably one of the most gorgeous and underrated supplements for any RPG ever, Operation:Rimfire.  It is visually sumptuous, and, provided players are willing to get a little (read: a lot) railroaded, worth the ride.  Overall if you can hack a sandbox for the default Mekton world together it's worth playing, otherwise, again...choo, choo!  All aboard the Plotline Express!  This one is all about grand, cinematic, setpiece battles.

Thanks for the input, jeff. Between Mekton II and Mekton Zeta, which would you rather point me towards?

DTRPG lists Mekton Zeta and something called Mekton Zeta Plus that seems to be a revision.

Crunch-wise, where do you feel the Mekton series falls? Compare to whatever games you feel handy. I understand it's supposed to be a variant Interlock (as in the CP2020 system) which I'm not familiar with beyond chargen.

Quote from: The Butcher;748623Crunch-wise, where do you feel the Mekton series falls? Compare to whatever games you feel handy. I understand it's supposed to be a variant Interlock (as in the CP2020 system) which I'm not familiar with beyond chargen.

Mekton is incredibly crunchy, particularly construction.  Get ready to break out the calculator.

Quote from: The Butcher;748623Thanks for the input, jeff. Between Mekton II and Mekton Zeta, which would you rather point me towards?

DTRPG lists Mekton Zeta and something called Mekton Zeta Plus that seems to be a revision.

Crunch-wise, where do you feel the Mekton series falls? Compare to whatever games you feel handy. I understand it's supposed to be a variant Interlock (as in the CP2020 system) which I'm not familiar with beyond chargen.

Crunch-wise, I would say that the Mekton series is on a par with CP2020, they are made by the same publisher (R. Talsorian Games).

Mekton II came out in 1987 while Mekton Zeta came out in 1995 (with a repreint in 1998), yet both are basically the same. Mekton Zeta has a slight edge in that it is better written and formatted. Mekton Zeta Plus is an expansion, not a revision, with a bunch of extras that are fairly helpful should you go for the options it offers.

Honestly, I grabbed both Mekton II and Mekton Zeta because the price is right and the systems are flexible. I've used the lifepaths for Traveller when creating dynastic merchant houses with their own internal politics and intrigues.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;748629Mekton is incredibly crunchy, particularly construction.  Get ready to break out the calculator.

Only the Advanced Construction system. The base one in the core rulebook involves very little math beyond making sure your added up components don't exceed budget. I've seen more math used in making sure PCs get a fair share of treasure in D&D.

Quote from: jeff37923;748635Only the Advanced Construction system. The base one in the core rulebook involves very little math beyond making sure your added up components don't exceed budget. I've seen more math used in making sure PCs get a fair share of treasure in D&D.

TBH I haven't looked at it in like...20 years? so I'll take your word for it. :]

Mekton Zeta is the corebook for the third edition of the game.  Mekton Zeta Plus is the mecha construction book with expanded options for building your mecha.

IMO, Mekton II is the better Mekton system to start with, particularly if you just want to pick up one book and get started playing.  I think that book has a easier and more versatile basic construction system.  However, there may be some conversion shock if you pick up the Mekton Techbook to expand the construction options.  The basic construction system in the corebook isn't quite the same as the one shown in the Techbook.

However, if you start with Mekton Zeta, the construction method in the corebook and the Mekton Zeta Plus techbook are the same.  It's just that the default equipment shown in the core Zeta book isn't quite as versatile as the basic stuff provided in Mekton II.  YMMV.

Nothing about Mekton is complicated.  Characters are defined by attributes ranging from 2 to 10 and skills ranging from 0 to whatever.  Tasks are resolved by attribute + skill + 1d10 against a difficulty number.  That's the system.

Construction is basic addition and multiplication.  Making up a Pathfinder character is more complicated than making a mech up in Mekton.  Purchasing equipment in basic D&D is roughly the same degree of complexity.

Now, it is possible to make constructing a mech in Mekton complicated.  If you want A LOT of optional systems on the machines, then the math can get complex in terms of order of operations and number juggling.  But when this comes up it is for rare or unique mecha meant to be driven by series main villains and stuff of that nature.  Mecha which are complicated to do the math for will tend to be one of a kind prototypes.  Mook mecha will likely be very basic addition and not much else.

And if you don't want to do the math, just look at the books as parts lists.

Default Mekton Zeta isn't complex, Mekton Zeta Plus (the advanced construction guide) can take more work and effort, but its not terrible.

I'd say its about on par with more complex Pathfinder characters--but, that being said you only have to do most of it when you create Mecha and unless you're playing a setting where you've a reason for mecha swapping  alot--it shouldn't be a big issue.

Thanks for throwing out that announcement, Butcher.

Mekton I have never played, but I have skimmed through its creation rules, and it's rather exceptional for its depth.

I've also checked out Cthulhutech right up until the point that they started going... weird. It's far more abstract in its details.

In regards to Heavy Gear, I came after 1st Edition. I'm most familiar with the 2nd Edition (which brought out the leaguebooks) and the 3rd Edition, SilCORE. I've been a long-time play-by-post roleplayer, and I've GMed quite a few campaigns between a motley assortment of rough and good friends there in the forums.

I've always played the squad types, but having been in the U.S. Army I'm prone to want to include my field knowledge and experiences. Sometimes therapeutic to insert anime humor into the mix just to get some tension out of the system.

The world could field just about any type of campaign you could imagine. The leaguebooks from 2nd edition were extraordinarily detailed and provided so much depth that it would take me a long time to really review them at all.

Espionage, counter-espionage, assassination, cyberwarfare, police work, it's all possible. Heavy Gears are just the league militaries' primary vehicle of choice because they're easy to mass produce.

Jovian Chronicles was also great, seeing as how I got my start on mecha with Gundam Wing. But with age and experience came a certain seasoning that made teenage angst less and less my forte. JC is more adult-oriented.

Take it with several dozen grains of salt, I'm a fan.

-Brandon F.