Quote from: sureshot;1070471Pundit to me at least comes across as someone whosee hobby has passed him by. Yet refuses to gracefully accept it.

The hobby is no longer played in dark basements by dedicated gamers. Instead casual gamers and has become somewhat mainstream.

I helped create the game that made gaming casual and somewhat mainstream. I in fact was the one who RECOMMENDED, even before I was Consulting on 5e, that D&D needs to facilitate casual gaming.

I also haven't played D&D in a basement in at least 20 years.

Is he running a Mass Effect campaign that has the Kardashians in it?!  Kiki and Asari bounce-bounce

Quote from: sureshot;1070453Your becoming the stereotype of the grognard afraid of change at this point. With a word of advice do not go too much on a mega rant in your videos it kills any interest to want to watch the whole thing.

Do you have a YouTube channel?

Quote from: sureshot;1070471Pundit to me at least comes across as someone whosee hobby has passed him by. Yet refuses to gracefully accept it.

Like most veteran players, I think he wants new players to the hobby to experience gaming the way we were lucky to. Before the general public ruined things.

Quote from: kythri;1070487Ultimately, is seems to me that the big concern here is that people are getting turned off from the hobby because they have this grand expectation (due Critical Role is misrepresenting D&D as some big almost-LARP nonsense), and the reality is so completely different, and they give up on the hobby because of that.

Most game sessions end up being a bunch of fat neckbeards playing Mother, May I together. New players then have to decide if it's something worth their time doing. The trick is finding a group of good players that know how to role-play their characters.

I was a ham long before YouTube. I enjoy playing with other hams too so if the amateur theater crew wants to make Ren Faire talk between dice rolls, I'm cool as long as they know there's no plot protection for their PCs.

I'm very upfront about how I run my games so new players either happily join or flee in horror. Both reactions are good by me.

Quote from: Almost_Useless;1070543I don't have any problem with Critical Role for what it is.  It's the pro-wrestling of rpgs -- performers engaging in a mostly-arranged exhibition.

Exactly. And pro-wrestling got many kids interested in real wrestling.

I am unimpressed with Critical Role or Twitch, but I'd rather do stuff than watch stuff. However, I understand how YouTube has replaced TV for many people and "reality TV" style entertainment is popular.

I don't know how many viewers actually believe reality shows are real. Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect most people know its processed cheese spread and not raw truth. Maybe it's just my circle, but young people I know have been extremely critical of documentaries and "based on a true story" movies because the internet has given them instant access to critiques discussing the real facts.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1070567I also haven't played D&D in a basement in at least 20 years.

Are basements popular in Uruguay?

In California, they are very rare. I rented a mountain cabin for a gaming weekend a decade ago and it had a small basement (so of course we gamed there), and my crew still talks about it like we found the Holy Grail.

I actually do do most of my gaming in a pub basement... I prefer daylight though!

Quote from: RPGPundit;1070564Except he didn't. He figured out how to make a fashionable and feasible SIMULACRUM of hobbyists playing a sessions. They're actors, playing an improv theater act of hobbyists playing a session. And this causes the problem of the Mercer Effect. People think the Simulacrum is real and the actors are really feeling things they're acting.

Of course this was actually a D&D Simulacrum thread. Really a spell they can't figure out how to get right.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1070563In the video I explicitly state that Critical Role does bring some new players into the hobby.

It's all well and good but you kind of bury that point under pointless ranting about a seemingly horde of players expecting D&D tables to be like Critical Role. Sure one might the strange and weird person expecting such tables. Most new and old gamers are know that is just the set-up for Critical Role. Like it or not and it's not something I would do know yet if I were young I would be doing my research on D&D and rpgs in general probably watching videos. Especially given how much the books cost even if one goes on Amazon to buy them.

I appreciate the time and effort that went into the video. The constant end of the hobby as we know it vibe is starting to get too much.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1070564Except he didn't. He figured out how to make a fashionable and feasible SIMULACRUM of hobbyists playing a sessions. They're actors, playing an improv theater act of hobbyists playing a session. And this causes the problem of the Mercer Effect. People think the Simulacrum is real and the actors are really feeling things they're acting.

Again I'm not a fan of Critical Role and I find Mercer annoying. Yet if fans think that it's on them. To use my above example if one bakery near my house offers to bake smoked meat in a loaf and for the time being they are the only ones who do it. It's on me for thinking that all bakeries do that not the bakery that puts smoked meat in the loaf. Same thing with Critical Role if gamers insist on showing a shocking lack of common sense it's on them and not critical role. They either accept that assumptions are wrong or they find another table.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1070567I also haven't played D&D in a basement in at least 20 years.

Like it or not for many years the hobby and the gamers had the stigma of a bunch of socially retarded, unwashed bunch of guy (mostly ) playing D&D in one of the players parent usually assumed to be the mom basement. I hated and still hate that fucking stereotype. With hating those in the hobby who cling to that notion even more. If left to some gatekeepers D&D would be played by the privileged few. Anything and everything that changes that notion to me is a good thing imo.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1070570Do you have a YouTube channel?

No I don't. Your point? Or is that only does who have a Youtube channel can criticize Pundit. That is bullshit and you know it. Do you have a Youtube channel? Please kindly post the links.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1070571Like most veteran players, I think he wants new players to the hobby to experience gaming the way we were lucky to. Before the general public ruined things.

So D&D is more popular and more new players are entering the hobby  because of both the 5E rules and people putting videos on Youtube and because it's the general public and not a privileged few it's being ruined. Sure if you say so. If some here want to be anti-tech luddites and refuse to accept the effect that Youtube can have on teaching plyaers a hobby. Adamantly refusing to accept that it's how younger people learn things that's on you. If you mean lucky by having to experience shitty and god complex, railroading DMs. With whiny players who would table flip at the earliest opportunity because the players could not get their way. I enjoyed the hobby then with all of it's failings. Yet the so called perfect days of yore that existed before the dreaded scourge of social media or worse players that actually have a different play style then my own did not exist. Take off the rose colored glasses sprayed painted black.

It was not a terrible time yet neither was it this seemingly perfect gaming utopia. The hobby has changed for better or worse. No hobby remains static not unless it's forced. Change by virtue of what is can lead to good or bad outcomes. Change is not good when the outcome benefits one self or suddenly bad because the outcome is one that does not benefit. If change we so easily to control people would be marketing it as a commodity at the store or on Amazon.

I reiterate I enjoy Pundit videos. I almost always give him a like even when I don't like the content of the video. I'm not here to engage in an echo chamber or give you an internet equivalent of a pat on the back or validation when I don't like the video or forum post.

I will say this though most will not care some of you are not doing this hobby and favors imo. It's either lashing out at the younger generation for daring to use social media to learn a hobby, when let's be honest many here if they were the same age would do the exact same thing. New generation of players which we need to keep this hobby to survive if they are not exact clone copies of yourselves seem only to exist to be mocked for daring to (gasp! ) like narrative and newer editions of rpgs. Heaven forbid new players and DMs think differently than us. Insist on drawing generational lines in the sand then wondering why the younger generation wants nothing to do with you. I'm 45 and I do not embrace every new thing or change in the hobby. Neither is every new thing or change the end of our hobby.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1070564Except he didn't. He figured out how to make a fashionable and feasible SIMULACRUM of hobbyists playing a sessions. They're actors, playing an improv theater act of hobbyists playing a session. And this causes the problem of the Mercer Effect. People think the Simulacrum is real and the actors are really feeling things they're acting.

Then you are ignorant of range of playstyles hobbyists bring to tabletop roleplaying. There are two things that are outliers at Matt Mercer's table. That it is a group of people that are largely are professional voice actors helmed by a professional voice actor. Two in part they are playing to an audience.

The former is extremely unlikely within the hobby. But then again just about every group is unique, I can only imagine what a cyberpunk campaign where everybody is a Computer Science PHDs is like. Or a space campaign where everybody is an astronomer or astronaut. The uniqueness of this group is one that makes it likely to be something interesting to watch.

The latter point is undoubtedly a point of contention among many including yourself. However that too is within the range of play styles I have experienced. Although the typical case is an individual or a subset of the playing playing to the audience of the rest of the table. I seen it both done well, done badly and done "ok that nice, what in the next room?" In addition, it rare but I seen people sit on convention games that happened to be particularly entertaining to watch.

So I disagree that it is a simulacrum.

What also people fail to realize with Critical Role that people in this day and age of the internet care a lot about authenticity. That a person or group is  genuinely enthusiastic about the topic they are showing, doing, or talking about. That authenticity comes through and when combined with the expertise shown running the campaign and creating the videos makes Critical Role as popular as it is.

If in the long run the technical demands of the format start swamping the nuts and bolts of running a tabletop roleplaying games then it will become it own thing. Just as the replacement of a human referee with a software algorithm caused CRPGs to become their own thing. So far I am not seeing that any more than what I see with long running campaing run using Roll20/Fantasy Grounds and Discord/Skype/Hangouts.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1070562No, but it's always the intention to BE better.  Doesn't always succeed, but the INTENT is there.

The "Best of Intentions", I'm sure.
 

QuoteBut, hey, tell me again that gamers don't hate change?

Change is good. Stability is good. Wisdom is navigating between the two.

Quote from: kythri;1070487I think that concern is valid.  Statistically, disappointed customers are more likely to trash product/retailer than satisfied customers.  I can't expect that similar behavior doesn't happen in this context.  I honestly don't believe these "shows" are good for the hobby, long-term.

I think only the overblown vids are a potential problem in that they present a false image of how the majority of sessions are run. But they have to be overblown to attract viewers. Or so some think and are doing in their vids.

I think some of these session vids really should have a sort of disclaimer at the beginning that this is a production and not necessarily representative of the norm.

That said. There are more normal vids out there that better represent a session.

Quote from: Brad;1070507The difference here is that X-Wing is competitive, so much like baseball, you can get vested in the outcome. Watching people play an RPG is like doing some sort of interactive fiction but you have no input at all. Like, what's the point?

Depending on the presentation it can be akin to a radio drama or modern equivalent. Fun to listen to the adventure.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1070447"Critical Role" D&D-themed Reality Youtube Show

Never heard of it until now, but I also don't have time or interest in social media beyond browsing a few forums.