Quote from: kythri;1079281I'm one who thinks CR is, outright, pre-scripted fluff.  And, quite frankly, I don't for a second believe those people are enjoying themselves.  Certainly, they're acting as if they're enjoying themselves.

Thinking is not proof.  Show us proof, and we will believe you.  Or rather, I will.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1079273@Jaeger

I've been watching this entire thread.  As far as debate goes, not a single shred of actual evidence has been provided to indicate that CR is acting.  The ONLY claim to evidence is that people seem to be enjoying themselves far more than is actually POSSIBLE and therefore it MUST be acting.

You should probably read that sentence a few times before you go off half-cocked because it really does imply that some people are having more fun than the people here are - more fun than apparently people here can IMAGINE.  

Which is pretty sad when you think about it for any length of time.

I about 80% agree with this. I think the CR cast definitely ham up their OOC reactions for the audience - for the cameras as well as for their fellow players (a very actory thing to do, Dahling); OTOH there does seem a bit of a "They should be mostly bored and checking their IPhones! Fake news!" thing going on here.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1079284Thinking is not proof.  Show us proof, and we will believe you.  Or rather, I will.

I advise you to just skip posts that make such claims without offering any evidence. Without evidence, the conversation is a waste of time.

Quote from: Motorskills;1079202So one thing these tyrannical SJWs have done in times past is push (successfully?) for building codes to require wheelchair access. So that has helped some.

SJWs never advocated for access. Normal people advocated for access. Handicapped people advocated for access. There is a notable difference.
SJWs are all about bitching about the oppression and trying to co-opt things to "make a statement". But they never actually care about the real issues or do anything about the real issues like access, support, and cures. SJWs are also the types most likely to give the group they are advocating for a bad name.

So again. No. Inclusivity can never be forced.

Quote from: Omega;1079315SJWs never advocated for access.

This is a 'no True Scotsman' argument.  The moment a social justice warrior actually makes a difference, they're no longer considered a social justice warrior.  But clearly and provably, someone must have INTENT before they take action.  For every person that made a difference you can find a moment when they realized that it was a problem and that they'd join the fight.  People with physical disabilities are a relatively small (but growing minority), but they didn't achieve the ADA entirely on their own. George HW Bush signed the bill into law.  

You can disregard the contribution that popular opinion has when it is divorced from action, but you'd be an idiot to do so.  Most laws are enacted by politicians who intend to get re-elected; voting for broadly popular policies is usually a good way to do so.  Perhaps less so now due to how bad Gerrymandering has become, but state-wide elections still (generally) give each person a vote, so passing laws designed to piss off the majority isn't wise.  Clearly, the powers that be didn't feel that making life harder on able-bodied people to better accommodate people with physical handicaps would anger the general population.  

For myself, I've never been in a wheelchair, had to use crutches, or otherwise had trouble with stairs.  That said, I appreciate the ADA because I understand that that could change at any time.  As a parent, I have often appreciated access ramps as I've dealt with strollers. I wasn't even in High School when the law passed

Quote from: Omega;1079315So again. No. Inclusivity can never be forced.

I think that depends entirely on what your objectives are.  Ask the Little Rock 9.

SJW's don't make a positive difference.  They are, at best, slacktivists, at worst domestic terrorists.  Inclusion works if you don't force it.  If you force it, you get people who push back, like the aforementioned Southern States that caused the Little Rock 9 incident.

Forcing something ALWAYS gets people to push back, ALWAYS.

I mean the good news is their kickstarter was so vastly successful that they're downright overfunded for making thier show.  If the accusation is that what they've been doing is more of a show than legitimate gaming, well, now they have enough money to remove the pretense of gaming from producing the show itself.

Then the conspiracy theories about the legitimacy of pundits accusations possibly having been the very catalyst for  them to finally bite the bullet and go whole hog on making it a full blown actual show can begin in earnest.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1079375SJW's don't make a positive difference.  They are, at best, slacktivists, at worst domestic terrorists.  Inclusion works if you don't force it.  If you force it, you get people who push back, like the aforementioned Southern States that caused the Little Rock 9 incident.

Forcing something ALWAYS gets people to push back, ALWAYS.

So, to be clear here, you're arguing that either a) chattel slavery was ended in the US without force, or b) the ending of chattel slavery in the US was not worth the pushback?

Quote from: VincentTakeda;1079385Then the conspiracy theories about the legitimacy of pundits accusations possibly having been the very catalyst for  them to finally bite the bullet and go whole hog on making it a full blown actual show can begin in earnest.

Everything flows from Pundit...

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0347431a-4296-4c22-ae3f-b737a679a2d0

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Matt 'the Barbarian' Mercer faces Thulsa Pundit.

Quote from: Motorskills;1079202So one thing these tyrannical SJWs have done in times past is push (successfully?) for building codes to require wheelchair access.

You mean things the Americans with Disabilities Act requires, which was advocated for by actual disabled people, signed into law by George Bush Sr (Rep), and then amended by George Bush Jr (Rep) to broaden its powers?

Yeah, modern SJWs haven't achieved anything close to that. On the contrary, some are now arguing against accessibility measures like voicechat on the basis that its ableist, racist, and sexist.

Quote from: Mistwell;1079226I don't know RPGPundit in real life

Does anyone?

No really, has anyone here ever met him personally, participated in one of his games, or know someone who has?

Quote from: kythri;1079281I'm one who thinks CR is, outright, pre-scripted fluff.  And, quite frankly, I don't for a second believe those people are enjoying themselves.  Certainly, they're acting as if they're enjoying themselves.

Sadly there's little I can do to convince you otherwise, as while they project and amplify more than the average person, I certainly believe their emotions are genuine.

Quote from: RoyR;1077384How do you know for a fact that CR people are "acting"?

Go take an improv class. That's all the facts you'll need.

And CR acting isn't a bad thing from the perspective of making YT content. Their acting skills are why CR has their success.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1077382Regularly people just shooting the shit isn't some sort of phenomenon that people watch in-mass.

Exactly.

That's why all Reality TV is fake.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1078995There's nothing wrong with pointing out that inclusivity is hard.  If you don't try to make it happen, it won't happen.  

My table is open to fun gamers and fun people who want to be gamers.

I have never given a shit about their DNA or what they do with their junk.

I have zero cares about "inclusivity" because like all other SJW bullshit, its meaningless idiotic wank from self-destructive freakshows.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1079016Gaining skills and experience requires opportunity.  

Opportunity (or the lack of) is often correlated with race.

Wow, that's some A grade victimhood bullshit right there.

In the USA, opportunity is what you make for yourself. A basic fact known by almost everyone (especially immigrants), except whining SJWs and those who've drowned themselves in the victimhood narrative.

Quote from: S'mon;1079044Sometimes Diversity Casting in RPG settings can feel silly, but for American & British D&D campaign settings I guess it makes sense to have some 'these are the black people' ethnies, so black players don't have to play white PCs if they don't want to.

I haven't played in the AL campaigns so maybe you can explain this. How are there white and black PCs if everyone is making their own character? Or are you referring to in-book artwork?

Quote from: Jaeger;1079082But my Mom is from Guatemala. You are confusing me now.

Do they allow half-checks?  

You still have to Save vs. White Privilege, but you get Advantage on your roll.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1079085The obvious solution to this problem is simply to ban white cishet males from D&D.

We can only hope. There are so many other great RPGs that need more fans.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1079414I haven't played in the AL campaigns so maybe you can explain this. How are there white and black PCs if everyone is making their own character? Or are you referring to in-book artwork?

I'm referring to the in-setting races. For instance Forgotten Realms canonically has black people, whereas Greyhawk traditionally doesn't - the jungle natives south of the main campaign area are either white (Suel) or Mesoamerican.

Quote from: sureshot;1079172All due respect you want me to hire you to fix a roof make a good case without using race, gender or sexual identity politics. Try any of those three with me and you are shown the door immediately.

I used to be a headhunter and recruited nursing executives for a few years. Mostly women, many non-white women. Exactly ZERO of them ever brought up their gender or ethnicity. Exactly ALL of them focused on their education, experience and successes.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1079256No, you are confusing preening about something with getting something done.  The people who did the heavy lifting on the wheelchair access were not notably SJWs.

Exactly. SJWs only promote victimhood, not achievement.

My mother was hugely involved in ADA advocacy because of my disabled brother.

Mom's view on SJWs? Hmm, what's the name of Metallica's debut album?

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1079273The ONLY claim to evidence is that people seem to be enjoying themselves far more than is actually POSSIBLE and therefore it MUST be acting.

Of course, its acting.

Actors love acting. It's really fun for them. Improv is all about big emotions and exaggerated expressions and the melodrama of RPGing gives loads of opportunity for that. So yes, lots of fun for actors to be filmed doing improv.  

And actors have the MOST fun when they know an audience is watching and appreciating their performance.

Quote from: Catulle;1079388So, to be clear here, you're arguing that either a) chattel slavery was ended in the US without force, or b) the ending of chattel slavery in the US was not worth the pushback?

It was only "worth the pushback" by those of us who didn't sacrifice anything.

Those who died in the Civil War? Or lost their husbands and fathers? Maybe not worth the cause.

Civil War was oh so "worthy" because its just words in history books and actors on screens to us. Far different for those who took a bullet.

Quote from: S'mon;1079418I'm referring to the in-setting races. For instance Forgotten Realms canonically has black people, whereas Greyhawk traditionally doesn't - the jungle natives south of the main campaign area are either white (Suel) or Mesoamerican.

I'm still confused. If a black kid showed up at AL and wanted to play a black paladin, would they be limited to playing a paladin from a specific area of the game world? That never was a thing in RPGA.

And is PC ethnicity a thing in AL now? The only time I knew any PC's skin color was when they made it a point or they did a drawing of their PC.

BTW, that's why my Japanese buddy hated Oriental Adventures and loved Bushido. He was a pain in the ass in our OA games because he demanded to know what everybody's PC looked like. OA 1e was a hodge podge of Chinese / Korean / Japanese / myths and chopsocky flicks, especially in the core book which (like D&D) assumed DMs would DIY their setting and he always wanted to know what NPCs looked like.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1079419It was only "worth the pushback" by those of us who didn't sacrifice anything.

Those who died in the Civil War? Or lost their husbands and fathers? Maybe not worth the cause.

Civil War was oh so "worthy" because its just words in history books and actors on screens to us. Far different for those who took a bullet.

Righto. Well, I suppose it's a positive that you're clear about what you are.