Quote from: daniel_ream;470943Oh, you can exactly duplicate the Universal Table by reverse engineering the formula for the ranges.  That's what Mayfair did for Chill! to avoid getting sued.  I find that figuring ranges on the fly takes even longer than just looking it up on a table for my groups.

We have a strong bias for very, very fast dice mechanics.  We like rolling dice; we do not like taking more time to figure out what the dice meant than it took to roll them.  So far D6 Legend and ORE are our go-to choices.

Interesting.  I think that the 1d20 vs. a fixed target number is at least as fast as ORE's number-matching dice pool.  

In my experience, a simple die+number is very fast.  For example, I found the Cinematic Unisystem (i.e. the Buffy RPG) to be much faster than any dice pool system I recall.  And 1d20 vs. target is nearly as fast.

Quote from: jhkim;470947Interesting.  I think that the 1d20 vs. a fixed target number is at least as fast as ORE's number-matching dice pool.  

In my experience, a simple die+number is very fast.  For example, I found the Cinematic Unisystem (i.e. the Buffy RPG) to be much faster than any dice pool system I recall.  And 1d20 vs. target is nearly as fast.

I stick with the chart myself, its one chart in play that you have to look at, that's really easy. Takes most people longer to figure out their +X bonuses in other games regardless of the +X.

Quote from: jhkim;470947Interesting.  I think that the 1d20 vs. a fixed target number is at least as fast as ORE's number-matching dice pool.  

In my experience, a simple die+number is very fast.  For example, I found the Cinematic Unisystem (i.e. the Buffy RPG) to be much faster than any dice pool system I recall.  And 1d20 vs. target is nearly as fast.

For the computer scientists among us, O() notation is a useful tool for determining how time-consuming a dice mechanic is.  Using the MSH Universal Table has more discrete steps in resolving a single action than is apparent at first blush.

D6 Legend is still the fastest system we've used in action.  We cut down ORE to d6es to speed it up some.

Quote from: Silverlion;470952I stick with the chart myself, its one chart in play that you have to look at, that's really easy. Takes most people longer to figure out their +X bonuses in other games regardless of the +X.

I find it really easy and accessible as well, but I also usually put "cheat sheets" on the character sheets such as:

Fb:  61/91/100
Pr:  56/86/100
Ty:  51/81/98
Gd: 46/76/98
Ex: 41/71/95
Rm: 36/66/95
In:  31/61/91
Am: 26/56/91
Mn:  21/51/86
Un:  16/46/86

That is really clever. I am swiping that!

Quote from: Kaz;471013That is really clever. I am swiping that!

Indeed it is, someone, was it you Tristam? Did an entire PC sheet like that. I wish I knew where it was...

Quote from: Silverlion;471040Indeed it is, someone, was it you Tristam? Did an entire PC sheet like that. I wish I knew where it was...

Alas, t'wasn't me, but I'm checking out the usual suspects right now...

Doesn't seen to be on Classic Marvel Forever, but they do have the nifty
Encounter Wheel that can be used instead of the chart.

Was it the 4c Character Sheet?

No I don't think it was the 4C one...hrms, I'll look around. It was on one of the forums..

Aha here it is, but it seems it won't show in Google docs, you have to download it..

Quote from: Novastar;470594That would be one of my three gripes with the system:

1) It doesn't model low-power characters as well; want to play The Phantom, or The Green Hornet, or other fairly normal, albiet heroic characters? Get ready to burn thru a lot of Karma, just to be effective.

2) Body Armor and Force Field are too good. Even at low levels, they'll make you bulletproof, where only superpowers can hurt you.

3) Dodging is a fool's game, especially if you have one of the above.

EDIT: Now, it's still one of my favorite Superhero games, don't get me wrong. You just need to be aware of it's limitations.

Depends on what level you get on the power roll for your Armor (although Armor is more effective) or Force Field (a FF is -10 points less vs. bullets also), Gun damage can range from simple Pistols of 6pts all the way up to Machine Guns that do 20pts, so a Force Field of say Excellent (20) vs. a MG that does 20pts would only protect as a Good (10) shield although Armor of Excellent (20)+ is impervious to any guns.

But you also have to consider the odds of even rolling up a character with one of these two powers and then getting a decent power strength level roll as well.  I have seen players roll up Armor Poor (3) starting out and complaining, I'm like "it's good enough to slow down a bullet somewhat".

But yeah, low-power level games are hard to do in any super hero game, IMO.

Quote from: flyingcircus;471688But you also have to consider the odds of even rolling up a character with one of these two powers and then getting a decent power strength level roll as well.  I have seen players roll up Armor Poor (3) starting out and complaining, I'm like "it's good enough to slow down a bullet somewhat".

But yeah, low-power level games are hard to do in any super hero game, IMO.

It isn't hard to get a good power roll. Since everyone rolls on the Robot Column for power ranks. There is a decent chance of a solid power roll on that chart. I had problems with Monstrous Body Armor (his only power in one game.) Unfortunately, he lacked Life Support, or Resistance to Gases, Acids, and other things. I had him knocked out by a villain named Smoke, and turned into a Rat (sans mechanical body armor) by another allied villain named Streamer.

The two main issues I have with it are:

1. Spider-Man is hosed, since dodging uses up your action.
2. The armor vs. damage thing has a less obvious problem. If you are using the Advanced rules, each rank represents a range of static numbers. Two guys could have identical Armor and Strength, but if they differ by only a point or two, one can wear the other down while the second can do nothing. Imagine, if you will, two guys, one using a 9mm pistol and steel-jacketed rounds and reinforced kevlar armor, and the other guy using a smaller calibre pistol and wearing kevlar armor with slightly fewer armor plates, and you have an idea of how game balance can wobble on very small numbers. My example is kind of fake in that virtually all guns and armor of the same type will be given identical stats in FASERIP; the real example would be a guy with Excellent and Excellent as a rolled-up character going up against a published Marvel character with Excellent and Excellent ranks.

Quote from: pawsplay;471707The two main issues I have with it are:

1. Spider-Man is hosed, since dodging uses up your action.

Man what?  
A character who is dodging can only move half of their regular speed, can't make a charging attack in the same round, and gets a -1 to attack. You can still attack, in fact, most rounds you should be dodging , unless you;'re the Hulk. Additionally, because of his Spider-sense, every time a foe lands a successful "hit" on spidey, he gets to immediately make a "saving throw" of his Spider-sense rank and if he succeeds (green or better), the attack misses.

Played right, Spider-man is almost impossible to lay a finger on and will still be beating the crap out of you. Because he read the rules and knows that he can most certainly attack as well as dodge.

Quote2. The armor vs. damage thing has a less obvious problem. If you are using the Advanced rules, each rank represents a range of static numbers. Two guys could have identical Armor and Strength, but if they differ by only a point or two, one can wear the other down while the second can do nothing. Imagine, if you will, two guys, one using a 9mm pistol and steel-jacketed rounds and reinforced kevlar armor, and the other guy using a smaller calibre pistol and wearing kevlar armor with slightly fewer armor plates, and you have an idea of how game balance can wobble on very small numbers. My example is kind of fake in that virtually all guns and armor of the same type will be given identical stats in FASERIP; the real example would be a guy with Excellent and Excellent as a rolled-up character going up against a published Marvel character with Excellent and Excellent ranks.

The Advanced rules added a lot of, IMO, unnecessary rules and detail to the game. I prefer using the Basic revised game and adding bits from the Advanced Game as if it were a modular set of options, like GURPs. There are some brilliant bits (the HQ building rules are very popular among players I've found, for instance), but I think FASERIP works best as a light system with the Rankings viewed as a rough estimation of a character's abilities, rather than a specific quantification (sort of like weight classes in major sports).

Quote from: TristramEvans;471722Man what?  
A character who is dodging can only move half of their regular speed, can't make a charging attack in the same round, and gets a -1 to attack. You can still attack, in fact, most rounds you should be dodging , unless you;'re the Hulk. Additionally, because of his Spider-sense, every time a foe lands a successful "hit" on spidey, he gets to immediately make a "saving throw" of his Spider-sense rank and if he succeeds (green or better), the attack misses.

Played right, Spider-man is almost impossible to lay a finger on and will still be beating the crap out of you. Because he read the rules and knows that he can most certainly attack as well as dodge.

Holy smokes!
How'd I miss that?!?
Though in Revised Basic, they just made it a blanket -2CS shift to hit.
I'm still not sure a -0/-10/-20/-30% miss chance is a huge bonus, but it makes the Option A LOT more palatable.
Thanks, TristramEvans!

Huh, I spent a lot of time looking for such a rule and never found it. Page #, for future reference?

EDIT: Hmm, and Four Colors doesn't seem to have a rule like that at all, just for dodging and moving, or moving and attacking.

Pg. 27 of the Advanced Player's Guide

"Dodging is an Agility Ability, and reduces the attacking column shift. A character who is Dodging may only move half his speed in any turn, may not engage in a charging attack, and may perform one other action that turn, maximum (including making an attack)."

Looks like it is a -2CS to Fighting, rather than -1 (sometimes I've been using certain houserules so long I forget they're not part of the system).

In the original basic set, I know that Dodging was the only defensive option (Evading and Blocking were added in the Advanced set), but I seem to recall the Basic Revised kept all three types. Off to check...

Ok, here it is, pg 24 of the Basic Revised:

"A character who dodges announces his intentions to do so at the start of the turn. He may perform other actions (such as hitting an opponent), but all his FEATS have a -2CS penalty."