I was really interested in it, enough that I bought the print copy without looking at a preview first. The core book was beautifully produced.

The rules, however, were a non-starter for me. It was like it was written in Basque. I never made head-nor-tails of it.

I'd still be willing to give it a shot as a player, with an experienced referee, just so I could finally understand what I'm missing.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;686758I was really interested in it, enough that I bought the print copy without looking at a preview first. The core book was beautifully produced.

The rules, however, were a non-starter for me. It was like it was written in Basque. I never made head-nor-tails of it.

I'd still be willing to give it a shot as a player, with an experienced referee, just so I could finally understand what I'm missing.

You aren't missing anything...

2 of the 4 games I've played were by Dave Chalker and Phillippe-Antoine Menard of the Cortex Plus Hackers Guide... Even good GMs cant make a shit system any less shittier... And these are two developers? What. The. Fuck.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;686758I was really interested in it, enough that I bought the print copy without looking at a preview first. The core book was beautifully produced.

The rules, however, were a non-starter for me. It was like it was written in Basque. I never made head-nor-tails of it.

I'd still be willing to give it a shot as a player, with an experienced referee, just so I could finally understand what I'm missing.

The poker analogy is apt.

Every time a conflict breaks out you have to stop role-playing and play this byzantine little mini game.

Super bothersome.

There are lots of fiddly rules and strange terms to build up dice pools that end up all feeling the same.  I played it one-on-one with my wife (giggity!) and it just didn't add much to the game.  The Doom Pool was awkward and clunky, and generally it felt like a bunch of rules for the sake of rules.  I was excited by it, but ultimately disappointed.  The "invulnerability issue" really bugged me, more than it should.  Shrug.  I can't say I'm bummed they lost the license.  I wish they'd just redo MSH and be done with it - it still remains the best Marvel system.  Hell, one of the best systems overall.

Quote from: Obeeron;686774I wish they'd just redo MSH and be done with it - it still remains the best Marvel system.  Hell, one of the best systems overall.

This x like, a bajillion

Quote from: YourSwordisMine;686752Cortex is a shit system... Unfortunately MWP refuses to realize this so it gets saddled to even more licensed property... And because of this, I refuse to buy product from them I otherwise would have gotten due to the Licensed IP (Supernatural, nBSG, Serenity, Marvel, and now Firefly)

Cortex is the only RPG that makes me actually angry trying to play it... The dicing mechanic is shit... Even talking about it makes me unreasonably angry... In 30 years of playing RPGs, I have NEVER encountered a system that makes me want to punch someone... I really gave the system a try. I played it 4 times before I gave up... Each game made me angrier and angrier...

Which, I don't like being angry... I'm a pretty laid back person and it takes a lot for me to get mad... But holy shit... Cortex is a good way to fast track me there...

I know that feel. Unrelated to Cortex, but some systems make my teeth itch too.

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;686746We had fun with it but there was a serious lack of real consequence. You get physically mentally or emotionally stressed out and you are out of a scene.

Maybe it was our GM but there were no real "oops you're dead" moments. Ever. Mind you we have the same issue with Fate.

Of course, you don't often have "oops you're dead" in superhero comics, either.

That, to me, is the main reason why I don't play superhero RPGs.  The risk of death is a powerful motivator.

Quote from: Obeeron;686774There are lots of fiddly rules and strange terms to build up dice pools that end up all feeling the same.  I played it one-on-one with my wife (giggity!) and it just didn't add much to the game.  The Doom Pool was awkward and clunky, and generally it felt like a bunch of rules for the sake of rules.  I was excited by it, but ultimately disappointed.  The "invulnerability issue" really bugged me, more than it should.  Shrug.  I can't say I'm bummed they lost the license.  I wish they'd just redo MSH and be done with it - it still remains the best Marvel system.  Hell, one of the best systems overall.

What's the "Invulnerability issue"?

I think it's interesting that the system encourages two criticisms on the polar opposite of the RPG spectrum.

"It's too much of a story game"

and

"It's too much of a dice game."

And I agree, to an extent. The level of abstraction is very broad. You're only really meant to use Marvel Characters - the whole thing kind of breaks down when you use your own. With the dice range being so narrow it was hard to get excited about characters, because they all ultimately felt the same - like a big bag of dice being rolled.

There were some great things about it, things that I will take into other games. This was the only superhero game I've played where I could have snake-like robot arms coming out of walls, and giant buzz-saws, and turret lasers all involved in what's going on without it being annoying.

I just feel like it wasn't finished yet, even after it was done.

//Panjumanju

Quote from: flyerfan1991;686820Of course, you don't often have "oops you're dead" in superhero comics, either.

That, to me, is the main reason why I don't play superhero RPGs.  The risk of death is a powerful motivator.

In superhor comics, Batman (A skilled human being) can take a punch from Darkseid (A god that is at least 1-10 million times stronger than a human being) and not be knocekd unconsious.

Comics are storygame not simulationist

Quote from: Panjumanju;686876"It's too much of a story game"

and

"It's too much of a dice game."

I don't think those are opposites at all.

In fact the rampant disassociated mini-games are really what turn me off the most about story-games.

It never feels like I'm role-playing so much as moving a piece on a board.

I've played cortex+ action (Leverage), and the loose nature of your assets makes coming up with a technobabble explanation really easy, which would probably work better for a comic book RPG. Heroic is definitely the most crunchy of the iterations; the concept of balance through giving every character a large range of toys for roleplayers to play withis a good one, if completely different to other effectiveness-balanced superhero rpg's, but MHR does also add a ton of rules on top which are going to make some things more powerful. It's certainly not 'game engine as physics engine' like, say, M+M.

Haven't actually played Marcel Heroic, though, and I'd probably be more inclined to go for MSH for my superhero fix.

Quote from: Bill;686879In superhor comics, Batman (A skilled human being) can take a punch from Darkseid (A god that is at least 1-10 million times stronger than a human being) and not be knocekd unconsious.

Comics are storygame not simulationist

Your comment is a storygaming comment.

Disclosure: I'm running a FASERIP game right now with modified Karma rules (much more simpler, leveraging Aspects) - and I like a *little*simulationism in my super-heroics. I like knowing the limits of my PC's and NPC's.

Batman isn't *just* a skilled human... he's The Worlds Most Interesting Man, James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, Captain America, Gil Grissom, Bruce Lee, Bruce Leroy, Popeye, Tony Stark and Reed Richards all rolled into one.

Getting slapped by Darkseid is probably death-inducing, but Bats wears the monicker of "being just human" but let's be real... if *anyone* (as a GM) can forgive a mere mortal for taking the galactic-slap from Darkseid and survive - Batman is certainly in this territory.

MHR sucked big Galactus balls imo. Cortex is the most horrible system for RPG's I've ever seen. too bad too - they have a lot of good licenses.

Quote from: tenbones;686904Your comment is a storygaming comment.

I don't know what you mean by that. My statement was intended as humor. I love comic books, but they bend physics in a humorous manner.

Quote from: tenbones;686904Batman isn't *just* a skilled human... he's The Worlds Most Interesting Man, James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, Captain America, Gil Grissom, Bruce Lee, Bruce Leroy, Popeye, Tony Stark and Reed Richards all rolled into one.

I maintain that Batman IS a skilled human being. Close to THE most skilled in DC. As much as like his character, he performs far, far beyond what is remotely believable even withing comic book absurdity.

Quote from: tenbones;686904Getting slapped by Darkseid is probably death-inducing, but Bats wears the monicker of "being just human" but let's be real... if *anyone* (as a GM) can forgive a mere mortal for taking the galactic-slap from Darkseid and survive - Batman is certainly in this territory.

MHR sucked big Galactus balls imo. Cortex is the most horrible system for RPG's I've ever seen. too bad too - they have a lot of good licenses.

Not probably. Instant death if the blow makes any degree of contact.


I am not trying to be argumentative, I just stand by what I said.

Quote from: Nexus;686838What's the "Invulnerability issue"?

I actually meant the "Intangibility Issue".  If you have d12 in Intangibility, which is described as, "At d12, the power makes you completely out of phase with reality, including even energy waveforms. You're essentially not even there." you can still be hurt by any attack that gets "through" your pool.