Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 23, 2021, 09:26:31 PM
PF1 may not have suffered at the beginning from its woke, simply because it was the only major alternative to 4e.  But as the woke grew, the loyalty to PF1 may have decreased until the wokeness played a role in PF2 not being as successful.  This is not an either-or proposition.  The level of woke is a scale, and Baizuo has been consistently sliding the scale upwards.  People who were "pot-committed" (to use a poker term) may have grimaced but continued on with PF1, but drawn the line with PF2 because they had no investment in it.

I think there's probably a lot of truth in this. I didn't think of PF1 2007-10 as offensively woke, more standard Seattle left-liberal (which in 2021 means insane-woke, but did not back then). 2011-12 material is still not aggressively woke though there is some drift. By 2013 they're retconning Erastil, Jessica Price is in full swing on the message boards, and I'm beginnning to detach - ironically my one and only Pathfinder campaign was Curse of the Crimson Throne (converted 3.5 2008 version) prepped in 2013 and run 2014-15. Then I used 5e D&D to run Rise of the Runelords (2012 edn) mixed with Shattered Star (also 2012). I still may run Jade Regent and Skull & Shackles some day. They have some issues of minor wokeness, but they don't stink of it. 

Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on January 23, 2021, 09:40:30 PM
There is no WOKE reason for not planning trilogy from the get go, for allowing screenwriters of 3 parts to write them ultimately separatedly which leads to utter disjunction of all story.

Sure there's a woke reason for it.  The people involved were screened for Woke Purity rather than actual Competence or Work Ethic.  It's the same reason why so much of the latest output from WotC, Marvel, DC, Hollyweird are so bad.  Hiring for Demographic Categories and Ideological Fanaticism.

Paizo woke? Insert raucous laughter here.

There are several monsters whose shtick involves some manner of rape, sexism, or disgusting fetish. "Female or male monster that rapes and eats humanoids of the opposite sex" and "monster that pretends to be an attractive man/women to lure horny adventures to eat" and "sexy female monster with animal bits" are cliches.

Oh, and ogres have the "rapist hillbilly" stereotype.

Paizo treats sexual assault so flippantly. That's not woke unless you count the rape threats the woke throw at TERFs.

Well there are various aspects of WOKE.
Sure PAIZO use some cliches that are sort of icky - though it's hard to avoid really sexual predator monster - succubus style, so I think it's fine (what wasn't fine was of course REDEMPTION arcs for both Queen of Succubi and Runelord of Lust in CE sexy babes alternative style, because no hot lady can stay evil).

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 25, 2021, 01:28:26 PM
Paizo woke? Insert raucous laughter here.

There are several monsters whose shtick involves some manner of rape, sexism, or disgusting fetish. "Female or male monster that rapes and eats humanoids of the opposite sex" and "monster that pretends to be an attractive man/women to lure horny adventures to eat" and "sexy female monster with animal bits" are cliches.

Oh, and ogres have the "rapist hillbilly" stereotype.

Paizo treats sexual assault so flippantly. That's not woke unless you count the rape threats the woke throw at TERFs.

You're behind the times.  They have retconned a bunch of stuff.  The Paizo of the last 3 years is not the Paizo of 5-7 years ago...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 25, 2021, 04:03:38 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 25, 2021, 01:28:26 PM
Paizo woke? Insert raucous laughter here.

There are several monsters whose shtick involves some manner of rape, sexism, or disgusting fetish. "Female or male monster that rapes and eats humanoids of the opposite sex" and "monster that pretends to be an attractive man/women to lure horny adventures to eat" and "sexy female monster with animal bits" are cliches.

Oh, and ogres have the "rapist hillbilly" stereotype.

Paizo treats sexual assault so flippantly. That's not woke unless you count the rape threats the woke throw at TERFs.

You're behind the times.  They have retconned a bunch of stuff.  The Paizo of the last 3 years is not the Paizo of 5-7 years ago...

Feel free to fill me in. Are they saying that lesbians should suck ladydick, that gays should eat manbox, or that drow/goblins/beastmen/whatever are an oppressed minority while the light races are evil white supremacists? Because those are pretty much my lines in the sand.

They make goblins playable race and core, but it was sort of inevitable as their take on goblins was probably widely accepted as awesome - even though I prefer Faerun "evolved carnivar furry mammals" goblinoids.

Anything else?