Back in the 2e days, I was a teen and had little money. I'd get some money for birthdays, Christmas, a good report card, and had to choose my purchases wisely. I could only make a few purchases a year. Even a Dungeon magazine was a treat to be cherished and savoured.
I always remember going into the game shop and seeing the huge amount of D&D product. What a feeling! I wanted it all. So much goodness and awesomeness everywhere to explore. Vast worlds of imagination everywhere! If I only could buy it all!! Mind reeling. Like a kid in a candy store. So hard to make a single purchase!
Nowadays, I have the money to buy everything I want, multiples of it even. But when I walk into the game store, there's nothing that I want to buy.
I hope that 5e once again fills the shelves with awesome stuff that I want to buy. I hope that 5e is a renaissance.
On a related note, one of the most recurring dreams that I have is discovering a game store that is just packed with every item of AD&D, shelf upon shelf of new old stock, and I go on a shopping spree and get everything I want. It's like the best dream ever.
Some guys dream about sex with beautiful women. I dream about AD&D 2e.
Quote from: 1989;696298Back in the 2e days, I was a teen and had little money. I'd get some money for birthdays, Christmas, a good report card, and had to choose my purchases wisely. I could only make a few purchases a year.
I always remember going into the game shop and seeing the huge amount of D&D product. What a feeling! I wanted it all. So much goodness and awesomeness everywhere to explore. Vast worlds to explore. If I only could buy it all!! Mind reeling. Like a kid in a candy store.
Nowadays, I have the money to buy everything I want, multiples of it. But when I walk into the game store, there's nothing that I want to buy.
I hope that 5e once again fills the shelves with awesome stuff that I want to buy. I hope that 5e is a renaissance.
On a related note, one of the most recurring dreams that I have is discovering a game store that is just packed with every item of AD&D, shelf upon shelf of new old stock, and I go on a shopping spree and get everything I want. It's like the best dream ever.
Some guys dream about sex with beautiful women. I dream about AD&D 2e.
I dream aout beautiful women that find male dnd players irresistable like in the Axe Effect commercials.
Quote from: 1989;696298Some guys dream about sex with beautiful women. I dream about AD&D 2e.
Get outta the house man. Most of my dreams that feature rpg related stuff still include hot chicks.
Part of that is personal attitude and cynicism though.
It's hard to compete with your own "golden age" of nostalgia. Before anybody gets mad about the "N" word used--what I am specifically talking about is accessing the same level of "magic" that you felt when you read things for the first time. A common term used in comics when people were debating "the golden age", was the term "the Golden Age is 12", which means, when you were 12 years old, that was your golden age.
Granted, there are objective ways to measure quality as well as your own personal preferences, but I think people need to take internal inventory--is everything new out there crap, or did your tastes become more sophisticated or did you get jaded after seeing several variations on the same theme. Is the reason you like the earlier works of Stephen King, Chris Claremont, or Gary Gygax better than their later stuff really because they changed, or did you change (or did you both change).
It's tough to compete with your own memories.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;696304Get outta the house man. Most of my dreams that feature rpg related stuff still include hot chicks.
Are they wearing kneepads?
Oh wait, that was Ron's dream...
;)
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;696311Are they wearing kneepads?
Nah, just polyhedron based jewelry.
I agree with the feeling of walking into the FLGS and not finding anything on the shelf I want to buy, or it at least being hit and miss. But there's still a ton of great material being produced, it's just that lots of it isn't in the FLGS by default. There's POD material on DTRPG and Lulu, stuff available direct from the publisher like Frog God and LotFP, and Kickstarter material galore. On top of all that, pretty much every title TSR ever produced is available online, and most of it goes for less than cover price (once adjusted for inflation). Some of the above can even be ordered in to your FLGS. Really, considering all that, it feels like a golden age of RPGs to me.
Yeah, it's been a long time since I've walked into a game store and found anything that interested me that I didn't specifically go in to get.
Probably not since the advent of d20.
But, to be fair, it takes a lot more to capture my imagination these days. Most games it's"been there, done that".
Also, Toys R Us sucks these days. Two small rows of action figures, 50% Star Wars and any other line I might be interested on never reordered so just the same 2-3 second string characters. And then a handful of bad-looking hip modern revisions of superheroes.
Video stores are dead, and used bookstores ate not only getting rarer, but it's getting impossible to find "treasures" as everyone checks eBay selling prices (not auction end prices mind you) on stuff. (gee, wonder if those two are connected at all?)
Used to be, I'd spend a whole day shopping at all the aforementioned stores. Nowadays I get in, get out, and spend twice the amount of time shopping online.
Quote from: 1989;696298Back in the 2e days, I was a teen and had little money. I'd get some money for birthdays, Christmas, a good report card, and had to choose my purchases wisely. I could only make a few purchases a year. Even a Dungeon magazine was a treat to be cherished and savoured.
For me, it was the 1e days, but it was the same sort of situation. We'd pass around modules so each one got used 3 times or so. I didn't know anyone who had more than a handful of Dragon mags. I was also into wargames and comics so I had to choose carefully and eventually dropped comics.
2e was the poor college student and poor grad student days.
Quote from: JRT;696307Part of that is personal attitude and cynicism though.
It's hard to compete with your own "golden age" of nostalgia. Before anybody gets mad about the "N" word used--what I am specifically talking about is accessing the same level of "magic" that you felt when you read things for the first time. A common term used in comics when people were debating "the golden age", was the term "the Golden Age is 12", which means, when you were 12 years old, that was your golden age.
Granted, there are objective ways to measure quality as well as your own personal preferences, but I think people need to take internal inventory--is everything new out there crap, or did your tastes become more sophisticated or did you get jaded after seeing several variations on the same theme. Is the reason you like the earlier works of Stephen King, Chris Claremont, or Gary Gygax better than their later stuff really because they changed, or did you change (or did you both change).
It's tough to compete with your own memories.
I went through such a "phase" over the last few years, in a niche unrelated to rpg games and comic books, but was otherwise very big in my life when I was younger.
After I stopped buying 4E D&D splatbooks and Pathfinder APs, I started buying and watching a lot of dvds of movies and tv shows from my youth and young adulthood. Television shows like:
- The Incredible Hulk (from the late 1970's and early 1980's)
- the original Knight Rider
- Dukes of Hazzard
- The A-Team
- Miami Vice
- Airwolf
- the original Hawaii Five-O (from the 1970's)
- Magnum PI
- MacGyver
- Wonder Woman (from the late 1970's)
- the original Charlie's Angels
- the original Battlestar Galactica (1978-1979)
- Simon & Simon
- X-Files
- Babylon 5
- the original Starsky & Hutch
- Rockford Files
- etc ...
(Most of this stuff I found for $15 per season or less. Basically 20-25 episodes for less than the price of a 4E module or Pathfinder AP issue).
After watching through most of these old tv shows, I was wondering how the hell I was ever into these tv shows in the first place (back when I was a kid or teenager). Most of these tv shows were a huge disappointment watching again, after not seeing any of them in decades.
Basically I was watching these 25-30+ year old tv shows through the eyes of a middle aged adult, and not as a kid or teenager.
There is a lot of truth in the notion that one cannot compete with one's own youthful memories. One cannot "go back home again".
Yeah, after having a few childhood memories ruined by DVD, I've gotten very reluctant to research stuff I loved as a kid.
Some stuff, however, has held up or even been better in reviewing-
Twin Peaks
The original Max Headroom film (not the tv series)
Daria
The State
Batman: The Animated Series/Batman Beyond
The Prisoner
The Avengers (Emma Peel era)
Red Dwarf ( the first 4-5 series, before the new Kochanski showed up)
Fawlty Towers
Peter Davidson era Doctor Who
Granada's Sherlock Holmes adaptions
Gargoyles ( though the animation quality is lower than I remember)
MTVs The Maxx
Profit
Fraser
Adventures of Brisco County Jr
Brimstone
Parker Lewis Can't Lose
The Outer Limits
Quote from: TristramEvans;696354But, to be fair, it takes a lot more to capture my imagination these days. Most games it's"been there, done that".
I too find this to be the case as I get older.
I didn't really watch X-Files or Babylon 5 in their original first-run broadcasts back in the 1990's (other than a few random episodes via channel surfing).
When I was recently watching the dvd season sets of these two shows, I found that I was very skeptical and had a hard time suspending disbelief. If I had watched X-Files regularly back in the mid-1990's, most likely I wouldn't have been as critical with the "been there, done that" mentality. Most likely I would have really liked these two shows back in the day.
These days, I find that I am a lot more skeptical when watching more recent sci-fi tv shows, such as Fringe, Eleventh Hour, Heroes, Continuum, Orphan Black, the 2009 Star Trek movie, etc ...
Quote from: TristramEvans;696354Yeah, it's been a long time since I've walked into a game store and found anything that interested me that I didn't specifically go in to get.
Me too (http://black-vulmea.blogspot.com/2013/09/meditation-on-visit-to-game-store.html).
Isn't this board completely against game companies releasing new content anyway?
Quote from: Arturick;696528Isn't this board completely against game companies releasing new content anyway?
Uh...what?
I just catch up on the old stuff I missed out on. Thankfully my metro has a nice spread of game and used book shops to supply my retro desires. As long as the speculation doesn't get ugly, I'm happy.
I just wish I could buy things like AS&SH or French CoC stuff right off the retail shelves. However owners will place online orders or me so I can pick it up. May seem unnecessary, but it helps a local play space beyond soda and snack sales.
Quote from: TristramEvans;696354Yeah, it's been a long time since I've walked into a game store and found anything that interested me that I didn't specifically go in to get.
Probably not since the advent of d20.
But, to be fair, it takes a lot more to capture my imagination these days. Most games it's"been there, done that".
Also, Toys R Us sucks these days. Two small rows of action figures, 50% Star Wars and any other line I might be interested on never reordered so just the same 2-3 second string characters. And then a handful of bad-looking hip modern revisions of superheroes.
Video stores are dead, and used bookstores ate not only getting rarer, but it's getting impossible to find "treasures" as everyone checks eBay selling prices (not auction end prices mind you) on stuff. (gee, wonder if those two are connected at all?)
Used to be, I'd spend a whole day shopping at all the aforementioned stores. Nowadays I get in, get out, and spend twice the amount of time shopping online.
Comic shops are still great.
I like lookign at boardgames as well but usually easier to order on line and Singapore really only has one games store and its crap :)
Have you hunted down every single AD&D 2e item? That's actually pretty hard...I've got a lot of stuff, but you still seem to find things on Ebay that you don't have - despite having shelves full of stuff.
What about minis? Bones kickstarter?
Come on. There's gotta be something you can spend your money on.
Talk about First World issues.
Quote from: Blackhand;696578Come on. There's gotta be something you can spend your money on..
Guess I agree with the others, there are things I could buy, but mostly its all rehashed versions of stuff I either already own or could make up better on the spot.
Back in the day, I bought stuff for the graphics as much as anything else, but with the advent of google image search I can find amazing pix to supplement any scenario for free at the drop of a hat. And I am way past buying every new version of a game I've owned for 20 years. Yeah it was fun buying the hard back version of CoC when I had the box, and then a paper-back version, and then the leather bound anniversary edition (green one) and then the D20 version -- but enough already!
I would buy the Pathfinder book, but $50?! When the SRD is online for free?!
I'm the same at the book store. Time was I bought a couple of paperbacks a week. Now I use my library's online catalog and order books delivered to my home library -- they even send me an email when its there.
I only get books and games as gifts now, off my wish list at Amazon. And, yes, I know that's killing the local game stores. But $50?!
BTW: I do still look for fully fleshed out adventure scenarios with real meat, and I have been known to plonk down $20 for same, but they are rarer than hen's teeth now (and in the past, truth be told.)
Remember The Masks of Nyarlathotep? I bought that twice -- the original boxed set and the republished paperback. I'm re-reading Nocturnum of an evening right now. This is the stuff that's gold. Another treatise on the color of a dragon's underbelly scales or the lifestyles of elves that live on the ice is pretty much worthless to me. I want plot! I want settings and props and NCPs with motives.
What'cha got, Blackhand?
Quote from: TristramEvans;696537Uh...what?
Unless I've missed something, it's been fairly thoroughly agreed upon that...
Supplements = Power Creep For Munchkins
Campaign Settings kill creativity.
New game systems are either crunch for the vidja game munchkins or rehashing of the perfection that is OD&D.
Minis and maps are for rules lawyers with "character builds" and the sick atrocity that is the 3.0 Rogue + flanking.
The only thing more bizarre (from an outsider's perspective) than an RPGSiter buying some sort of game material would be an RPGSiter writing something and expecting someone to buy it.
Quote from: Arturick;696645Unless I've missed something, it's been fairly thoroughly agreed upon that...
Supplements = Power Creep For Munchkins
Campaign Settings kill creativity.
New game systems are either crunch for the vidja game munchkins or rehashing of the perfection that is OD&D.
Minis and maps are for rules lawyers with "character builds" and the sick atrocity that is the 3.0 Rogue + flanking.
The only thing more bizarre (from an outsider's perspective) than an RPGSiter buying some sort of game material would be an RPGSiter writing something and expecting someone to buy it.
I don't remember agreeing to all that. :idunno:
Quote from: Arturick;696645Unless I've missed something, it's been fairly thoroughly agreed upon that...
Supplements = Power Creep For Munchkins
Campaign Settings kill creativity.
New game systems are either crunch for the vidja game munchkins or rehashing of the perfection that is OD&D.
Minis and maps are for rules lawyers with "character builds" and the sick atrocity that is the 3.0 Rogue + flanking.
The only thing more bizarre (from an outsider's perspective) than an RPGSiter buying some sort of game material would be an RPGSiter writing something and expecting someone to buy it.
I think you'll find that therpgsite has posters with a vast amount of differing opinions on such things, and that it's functionally impossible to derive an archetypal "rpgsiter" stereotype that could possibly fit more than 5% of the board's posters at any given time.
That's why we argue all the time here.
Quote from: TristramEvans;696656That's why we argue all the time here.
Isn't that why we all come here?
Quote from: Bobloblah;696658Isn't that why we all come here?
Well, I'm just here because you're here and I'm stalking you.
Damnit! I knew it!
I'm here to meet all those sexy gamer girls Felicia Day has convinced me exist.
I'm here to hijack the OSR and become its new Taliban Pope dude.
Sometimes the stores have something interesting. But I've been focusing more on recovering older game material.
I am still trying to finish off my Star Frontiers collection. Few modules to go.
Sadly the minis are disintegrating in the boxes.
Did though get TSR's office copy of the game.
Quote from: Arturick;696645Unless I've missed something, it's been fairly thoroughly agreed upon that...
Supplements = Power Creep For Munchkins
Campaign Settings kill creativity.
New game systems are either crunch for the vidja game munchkins or rehashing of the perfection that is OD&D.
Minis and maps are for rules lawyers with "character builds" and the sick atrocity that is the 3.0 Rogue + flanking.
The only thing more bizarre (from an outsider's perspective) than an RPGSiter buying some sort of game material would be an RPGSiter writing something and expecting someone to buy it.
You must be new here. It was sorta kinda relatively homogenous a while back but with the ongoing collapse of places like rpgnet and story-games it's picking up a great diversity of opinions who are quite appreciative of the freedom to be heard they find here.
Quote from: Arturick;696645Unless I've missed something, it's been fairly thoroughly agreed upon that...
Supplements = Power Creep For Munchkins
Campaign Settings kill creativity.
New game systems are either crunch for the vidja game munchkins or rehashing of the perfection that is OD&D.
Minis and maps are for rules lawyers with "character builds" and the sick atrocity that is the 3.0 Rogue + flanking.
The only thing more bizarre (from an outsider's perspective) than an RPGSiter buying some sort of game material would be an RPGSiter writing something and expecting someone to buy it.
I was born after the oldschool heyday and didn't actually start playing tabletop games until 4e had been out a while. I came here because people seemed to have thick skins and were less ban-happy than the folks at places like big purple or Something Awful.
I also love battle maps. Minis I could give or take, but only because I like that you can put any image you want on a pog.
Quote from: TristramEvans;696354Also, Toys R Us sucks these days. Two small rows of action figures, 50% Star Wars and any other line I might be interested on never reordered so just the same 2-3 second string characters. And then a handful of bad-looking hip modern revisions of superheroes.
Video stores are dead, and used bookstores ate not only getting rarer, but it's getting impossible to find "treasures" as everyone checks eBay selling prices (not auction end prices mind you) on stuff. (gee, wonder if those two are connected at all?)
Is Toys R Us supposed to be awesome for adults? I can confirm that it is awesome for adults with kids, but it has been awhile since I have been to one sans kids.
Skynet has already terminated the physical media business.
I am always finding something worth a look in the gamestore, but I play RPGs, minis, boardgames and card games so I get to wander all the shelves.
Quote from: Arturick;696645Unless I've missed something, it's been fairly thoroughly agreed upon that...
Supplements = Power Creep For Munchkins
Campaign Settings kill creativity.
New game systems are either crunch for the vidja game munchkins or rehashing of the perfection that is OD&D.
Minis and maps are for rules lawyers with "character builds" and the sick atrocity that is the 3.0 Rogue + flanking.
The only thing more bizarre (from an outsider's perspective) than an RPGSiter buying some sort of game material would be an RPGSiter writing something and expecting someone to buy it.
Awesome troll is awesome. :)
Ok I'll take a bite.
Supplements: If I like what supplement is about then I will buy it. Frandor's Keep for Hackmaster is a great supplement so I bought it.
Campaign Settings: If I like a campaign setting then I will buy it. I really enjoyed the Gazetteer series for Mystara, the Greyhawk boxed set, and the FR Grey box.
New Game Systems: If I like a new game then I will buy it (noticing a pattern here). I picked up DCC, Dragon Age,& Hackmaster. A buddy gave me a copy of the new RQ and I'm thinking about getting ACKS.
Minis & Maps: I have been collecting and painting minis for 25 years. I enjoy using them in games. I have several game mats in both hex and square and a about 15 or so of the Paizo full color maps.
Yup. I'm just an old grognard that doesn't buy anything.
The Hamster wheel! It keeps on turning!
Quote from: TristramEvans;696656That's why we argue all the time here.
I don't argue all the time. You argue all the time.
That bit of frivolousness over with, back to the subject at hand. If you're not being turned on by the various stuff up for sale in the FLGS these days, either hit kickstarter up for something unusual or just take a break. If there's nothing you're interested in buying right now, then play what you have and let your money earn interest until something new and cool appears. :)
Being a new father (26 months old little girl), I don't get to game stores very much, and the closest thing recently has been me going by a local game convention... and even then, it was difficult to buy anything, as my daughter was more interested in the popcorn than the game books. (That said, the sight of my daughter running up to one booth and excitedly pointing and yelling "PURPLE DICE" was adorable.) These days I get my games via kickstarter and online sales. (//www.bundleofholding.com has been helpful as well.)
FLGS - no, DTRPG - yes; I just spent $25 there the other day.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;696526Me too (http://black-vulmea.blogspot.com/2013/09/meditation-on-visit-to-game-store.html).
Quote from: Black Vulmea's BlogOur hobby is dominated by designers writing for existing gamers, and if this is supposed to attract new gamers, there's some serious delusion going on.
Wow, truer words were never spoken as far as I am concerned. I think your blog is the only one I bother to read anymore.
Quote from: Arturick;696645Unless I've missed something, it's been fairly thoroughly agreed upon that...
Supplements = Power Creep For Munchkins
Campaign Settings kill creativity.
New game systems are either crunch for the vidja game munchkins or rehashing of the perfection that is OD&D.
Minis and maps are for rules lawyers with "character builds" and the sick atrocity that is the 3.0 Rogue + flanking.
The only thing more bizarre (from an outsider's perspective) than an RPGSiter buying some sort of game material would be an RPGSiter writing something and expecting someone to buy it.
No.
I buy up copies of
Mongoose Traveller Book 0: An Introduction To Traveller from the 2008 Free RPG Day and hand them out at demos and to new Players. They are going for the same cost as a good cheeseburger (price + shipping), so they are a worthwhile investment to spread the news of a good game system. So much for your "Supplements = Power Creep For Munchkins" crap.
I've gotten more inspiration from campaign settings like
Orbital and
Clement Sector than anything else, so much for your belief that "Campaign Settings kill creativity" crap.
I get that you are probably just trolling, but if this site and its posters are worthy of only your derision then why do you bother to keep reading?
Quote from: dragoner;697288FLGS - no, DTRPG - yes; I just spent $25 there the other day.
This is more my habit as well. I'll include Amazon.com and eBay in there as well as DTRPG.
Thing is, I'm finding a lot of original and worthy material only in PDF being put oput by 3PP.
Quote from: The Traveller;696960You must be new here. It was sorta kinda relatively homogenous a while back but with the ongoing collapse of places like rpgnet and story-games it's picking up a great diversity of opinions who are quite appreciative of the freedom to be heard they find here.
Agreed.
Seriously, don't fall into the trap. When I first came here it seemed like everyone was a douche about anything new, and I made a few missteps myself because of that perception.
But as long as you speak with a general amount of civility, its easy to get along with people here.
As to the OPs stuff:
I don't find nearly as much to buy as I used to. Yes, there are a few RPGs I follow that I keep buying things for. The new FFG Star Wars, bought Numenera recently and am really into that, but I remember when I was a kid, I could have bought a new book every week that I just HAD TO HAVE and still not run out of stuff I had to have.
I'm not sure if its just me being more discerning or if there really is just less stuff I want now.
I end up spending more of my money on board games, even if I spend more of my time on RPG stuff.
Just to say though: Even if the system doesn't sound like its for you, I would suggest getting Numenera just for the setting. Most of the book is setting description and its an awesome setting.
Quote from: jeff37923;697299Wow, truer words were never spoken ...
The arguments over T5 were filled with that delusion, despite an obvious fact that nobody is releasing a 650 page book for "beginners". But then again thankfully the MI thread was stickied over at mong, ever though it has nothing to do with trav; so if not deluded, at least the powers that be don't care.
Quote from: jeff37923;697305This is more my habit as well. I'll include Amazon.com and eBay in there as well as DTRPG.
Thing is, I'm finding a lot of original and worthy material only in PDF being put oput by 3PP.
I think I bought a couple from mong and one from spica and bunch of freebies, which are always nice.
Quote from: Bobloblah;696658Isn't that why we all come here?
I came for the waters.
I was misinformed.
Quote from: jeff37923;697299I think your blog is the only one I bother to read anymore.
:hatsoff:
Quote from: dragoner;697308The arguments over T5 were filled with that delusion, despite an obvious fact that nobody is releasing a 650 page book for "beginners". But then again thankfully the MI thread was stickied over at mong, ever though it has nothing to do with trav; so if not deluded, at least the powers that be don't care.
Yeah, T5 is definitely not for beginners. I tend to think that
Mongoose Traveller is, however (in terms of new) while the free download of
Starter Traveller from DTRPG is good for beginners (in terms of old).
I can't fault Mongoose for their decision on the Mongoose Infantry, they put it right out there. A RPG demo may get about 6 new customers while a Minis demo gets about 20 or more. That is just pure business reality.
Quote from: Teazia;697199Is Toys R Us supposed to be awesome for adults? I can confirm that it is awesome for adults with kids, but it has been awhile since I have been to one sans kids.
Skynet has already terminated the physical media business.
Whether Toys R Us is awesome for adults I imagine depends on the adult, my point was more that it's less awesome, overall, from what it was 10 or 20 years ago, insofar as its selection of action figures. In other words, kids don't know what they're missing. Which I guess is fine, but disappointing for those of us who were there in the days of "8 - 10 aisles of action figures".
Quote from: TristramEvans;697322Whether Toys R Us is awesome for adults I imagine depends on the adult, my point was more that it's less awesome, overall, from what it was 10 or 20 years ago, insofar as its selection of action figures. In other words, kids don't know what they're missing. Which I guess is fine, but disappointing for those of us who were there in the days of "8 - 10 aisles of action figures".
Depends on which action figures you are interested in. I collect Transformer toys, and honestly the ones coming out today are leaps and bounds better than the originals. They are just engineered way better.
Old school Transformers half the time were a vehicle that transformed into a block that looked like a robot with maybe just the arms moving at the shoulders. Newer Transformers are a vehicle that transforms into fully pose-able figures.
Modern nerf guns are also better than the older ones.
Yeah, I'm a bit of a dork.
No, not complaining about the quality of the AF themselves. Most are way better than those back in the day. Just Toys R Us as a retail provider of those toys available. Thou yeah, it wouldn't affect anyone specifically interested in TF.
Ha, yeah, sorry I think I misunderstood what you said.
I've been on meds for a back injury and it basically makes me half asleep at all times.
Quote from: jeff37923;697319Yeah, T5 is definitely not for beginners. I tend to think that Mongoose Traveller is, however (in terms of new) while the free download of Starter Traveller from DTRPG is good for beginners (in terms of old).
I can't fault Mongoose for their decision on the Mongoose Infantry, they put it right out there. A RPG demo may get about 6 new customers while a Minis demo gets about 20 or more. That is just pure business reality.
It was just sarcasm that as if we need another sticky there. I have nothing against Matt in the realm of business, I am an unabashed capitalist myself (right now watching the market for the bottom in order to place buy orders) and have come to Matt's defense plenty of times over business issues. IMO though, there are three FLGS' here all with mini's that if you go into them you see people playing, painting, etc. at any time of the day; mostly WH40k or Flames of War stuff ... BUT I've asked and nobody has heard of mongoose. Marketing 101 says nobody will buy your product if they have never heard of you, Mongoose Infantry is good, but sending out catalogs and brochures to retailers would be a big help.
Re. T5 etc., I play mong trav because it has the most players (new campaign in my sig), I have my T5 campaign from the playtest still on file, I'll pick it up again at some point. The free Starter Traveller is a good resource, though I wish the mong core rules were cheaper, too pricey on DTRPG imo.
-Rob
I am not the best person to speak to this issue, as 2e is the version of the game I have the least knowledge about.
That said, I keep getting the sense, over and over again, that 5e is trending towards 2e. Each new playtest packet is using language and concepts that people have spoken of for years concerning 2e, which were not really used much in WOTC-D&D.
It almost seems like they decided to make version 2.75e. Like they went back to 2.5 with the player options and combat and tactics and all that stuff, and said "OK, that didn't quite work as expected but there were some sound ideas there and in 2.0e, and we should bring the game forward from 2e just one more step."
Is anyone else getting that impression?
Quote from: Mistwell;697386That said, I keep getting the sense, over and over again, that 5e is trending towards 2e.
5e = 1e + 4e...if you hate 4e.
5e = 2e + 3e...if you hate 3e.
I actually hope you are right about 2e-mentality because the one thing that 2e did far better than any other edition was their settings. Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Birthright and Planescape (especially) really shone brightly in the 2e days.
If 5e offers me A+ kickass settings, I will buy them...and use them with 0e.
Quote from: Spinachcat;697397I actually hope you are right about 2e-mentality because the one thing that 2e did far better than any other edition was their settings. Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Birthright and Planescape (especially) really shone brightly in the 2e days.
I have a soft spot for Spelljammer myself, the ships at least, I could never get behind the crystal spheres and phlogiston. Marvellous ships though.
Quote from: Spinachcat;697397I actually hope you are right about 2e-mentality because the one thing that 2e did far better than any other edition was their settings. Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Birthright and Planescape (especially) really shone brightly in the 2e days.
Unfortunately the 2e era goes totally against WOTCs "Too Many Buckets" mentality.
Which in fact it failed miserably for WOTC as what happened? Yep. People took the SRD and created settings D&D was no longer giving real options for until the whole d20 modern and other GURPs-esque "toolkit" books came out and they desperately tried to toss out nets by outsourcing their "useless" settings to other publishers. Then licensing other publishers settings to use with theirs.
5e looks to again be a focus on "one setting". Though how long that will last is anyones guess.
Quote from: Omega;697410Unfortunately the 2e era goes totally against WOTCs "Too Many Buckets" mentality.
Which in fact it failed miserably for WOTC as what happened? Yep. People took the SRD and created settings D&D was no longer giving real options for until the whole d20 modern and other GURPs-esque "toolkit" books came out and they desperately tried to toss out nets by outsourcing their "useless" settings to other publishers. Then licensing other publishers settings to use with theirs.
5e looks to again be a focus on "one setting". Though how long that will last is anyones guess.
That's verifiably untrue. They've mentioned releasing Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, and one or two other campaign settings.
Quote from: JonWake;697411That's verifiably untrue. They've mentioned releasing Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, and one or two other campaign settings.
For 5e? As official settings?
The early 5e playtest material we got stated that the focus would be on Forgotten Realms.
But if they plan now to cover more settings fully again. Great!
Quote from: Omega;697420For 5e? As official settings?
The early 5e playtest material we got stated that the focus would be on Forgotten Realms.
But if they plan now to cover more settings fully again. Great!
I do remember it mentioned that certain races would be available in certain settings and not others, so it would be hard to imagine there wouldn't be more than one setting created.
Does WoTC own the rights to republish artwork used by TSR? Because I don't think theres a chance in hell they could get TDT back for a new Planescape, and his work really defined that setting for me .
Quote from: TristramEvans;697428Does WoTC own the rights to republish artwork used by TSR? Because I don't think theres a chance in hell they could get TDT back for a new Planescape, and his work really defined that setting for me .
Good question. TSR owned all the art and could re-use it as they pleased. I have yet to see WOTC retread any of the TSR art. Of course I may have just missed those instances? If not then that suggests that TSR's art library did not transfer over.
Or maybee WOTC just loved their anorexic looking monsters more? aheh...
And what DID happen to Tony DiTerlizzi after Planescape?
Quote from: Omega;697420For 5e? As official settings?
The early 5e playtest material we got stated that the focus would be on Forgotten Realms.
But if they plan now to cover more settings fully again. Great!
I believe they've officially stated they will start with 5 settings, and some of those were previously mentioned.
Quote from: Omega;697436Good question. TSR owned all the art and could re-use it as they pleased. I have yet to see WOTC retread any of the TSR art. Of course I may have just missed those instances? If not then that suggests that TSR's art library did not transfer over.
Or maybee WOTC just loved their anorexic looking monsters more? ahem...
And what DID happen to Tony DiTerlizzi after Planescape?
Incredibly successful children's book writer/illustrator. The Spiderwick film from a few years back was based on a series he did with Holly Black. His blog is awesome and his art makes me want to cry and give up drawing.
Highly HIGHLY recommend getting a copy of the Spiderwick Field Guide. Best-looking beastiary I've ever seen.
(http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/books/promos/a-plus/spiderwick.manticores.jpg)
Quote from: dragoner;697384Marketing 101 says nobody will buy your product if they have never heard of you, Mongoose Infantry is good, but sending out catalogs and brochures to retailers would be a big help.
-Rob
I completely agree with you here.
I think that Mongoose is taking a unique approach now. It sells PDFs of their latest book first to gauge the response from the market, then those which have gotten a good response will be made into actual paper books.
Quote from: Arturick;696645Unless I've missed something, it's been fairly thoroughly agreed upon that...
Supplements = Power Creep For Munchkins
Campaign Settings kill creativity.
New game systems are either crunch for the vidja game munchkins or rehashing of the perfection that is OD&D.
Minis and maps are for rules lawyers with "character builds" and the sick atrocity that is the 3.0 Rogue + flanking.
The only thing more bizarre (from an outsider's perspective) than an RPGSiter buying some sort of game material would be an RPGSiter writing something and expecting someone to buy it.
You clearly have been reading the threads from some made-up place you've mistaken for theRPGsite.
Also, your last point is particularly laughable given how many successful game designers hang out here per capita, which is to say probably more than at any other gaming forum.
RPGPundit
Quote from: TristramEvans;696656I think you'll find that therpgsite has posters with a vast amount of differing opinions on such things, and that it's functionally impossible to derive an archetypal "rpgsiter" stereotype that could possibly fit more than 5% of the board's posters at any given time.
That's why we argue all the time here.
And I contest your point - most archetypal rpgsiters are more than willing to argue ;-)
Quote from: Lynn;698131And I contest your point - most archetypal rpgsiters are more than willing to argue ;-)
We are NOT willing to argue!
Quote from: Lynn;698131And I contest your point - most archetypal rpgsiters are more than willing to argue ;-)
No we aren't. Prick. :D
Quote from: Lynn;698131And I contest your point - most archetypal rpgsiters are more than willing to argue ;-)
Quote from: Bill;698492We are NOT willing to argue!
Quote from: Benoist;698519No we aren't. Prick. :D
You're all wrong.
Quote from: Bill;698492We are NOT willing to argue!
Quote from: Benoist;698519No we aren't.
Oh look, this isn't an argument! It's just contradiction!
Quote from: TristramEvans;697439Incredibly successful children's book writer/illustrator. The Spiderwick film from a few years back was based on a series he did with Holly Black. His blog is awesome and his art makes me want to cry and give up drawing.
Highly HIGHLY recommend getting a copy of the Spiderwick Field Guide. Best-looking beastiary I've ever seen.
(http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/books/promos/a-plus/spiderwick.manticores.jpg)
Ooh, that's pretty.
Quote from: Omega;696959I am still trying to finish off my Star Frontiers collection. Few modules to go.
Sadly the minis are disintegrating in the boxes.
What...?
The old minis are made of lead, a very, very, soft metal. Over time gravity distorts the lead, pulling it earthward. The sharp edges soften, and finely crafted sculpts droop. Eventually the lead will eventually become just a puddle.
Lead is soft and bendable, has a low melting point, and was popular in the early days, however it is very toxic and overexposure leads to illness and neurological disorders, so it has been discontinued for use in manufacturing minis.
Most newer metal minis are made of a Pewter alloy (Tin mixed with lesser amounts of Copper, Antimony, or Bismuth) that is much firmer, that holds up much better, and retains the original miniature mold details. Plus it's not poisonous.
Quote from: jeff37923;697531I completely agree with you here.
I think that Mongoose is taking a unique approach now. It sells PDFs of their latest book first to gauge the response from the market, then those which have gotten a good response will be made into actual paper books.
I'm not sure what their metric is for the creation of printed books is, I've read the threads as I'm sure you have as well; sometimes it doesn't even look like there is a metric. But for them to be at the FLGS shelf, it would sell better than if there was just a few books. Even though, if they are selling that, or pdf, the core rules are too expensive for a game that has been out as long as it has. Either way, get the core rules in people's hands and it will generate other sales of other material, I know mong does a $5 sale every once in a while, that should be permanent.
Quote from: One Horse Town;698575Ooh, that's pretty.
It is. I was never a fan of the visual aesthetic of Planescape; I thought it was wrong for the D&D planes, but I can't deny the guy is an astounding artist.
RPGPundit
Quote from: GameDaddy;698959The old minis are made of lead, a very, very, soft metal. (...) Eventually the lead will eventually become just a puddle.
Oops.
I wonder what my old TSR minis look like (that are in storage since the turn of the millennium)...
Quote from: Mistwell;697438I believe they've officially stated they will start with 5 settings, and some of those were previously mentioned.
That would be awesome. Would love to see the return of Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Al Qadim, and Planescape, if the artwork was good.