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Author Topic: Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin  (Read 15563 times)

Christopher Brady

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #165 on: April 25, 2017, 05:17:04 PM »
Quote from: Angry_Douchebag;959403
For the most part I find your posts mildly annoying.  But that actually made me laugh.  Maybe you aren't just an irritating old fart.

You had him pegged the first time.
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Gronan of Simmerya

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #166 on: April 25, 2017, 05:17:04 PM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;959424

Looking at the collection of pathetic asshats who actually wrote for those games, can you honestly say with a straight face that there were no women game designers talented enough to sit in one of those chairs?


I don't know if the people are actually pathetic asshats, but the editions you name are all horrific clusterfucks of rules.  Really, "MOAR RULZ!" solves very few problems.
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Black Vulmea

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #167 on: April 25, 2017, 05:23:01 PM »
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;959427
I don't know if the people are actually pathetic asshats, but the editions you name are all horrific clusterfucks of rules.

My reasoning is inductive: if each game is a clusterfuck, then it follows that the designers are asshats.

The formal proof will need some polishing, of course.
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Christopher Brady

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #168 on: April 25, 2017, 05:27:58 PM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;959424
3e D&D designers? All men.

4e D&D designers? All men.

5e D&D lead designers and writers? All men.

In nearly twenty years there hasn't been a single woman with a hand on the reins of The World's Most Popular.  Women are represented in each of these editions in editing and graphic design and production, but not as game designers or writers.

Looking at the collection of pathetic asshats who actually wrote for those games, can you honestly say with a straight face that there were no women game designers talented enough to sit in one of those chairs? And if that's true, then why the fuck not? What is it about how gaming companies go about finding and developing game designers that's resulted in this disparity for at least the last twenty years?

2e All men.

1e All men.

0e All men.

Which begs the question, what does it prove?  Did Gary Gygax actively exclude women from his game?  Did Dave Arneson (I may misspelling his name, apologies if I am) do so?  Or is it because not many girls or women were interested in the style of play.  Will we ever know?

All were getting is who worked on D&D, not WHY.  And that's the bigger question:  Why did it turn out this way?

But all we're getting in response is suppositions that some people are trying to push as fact.
"And now, my friends, a Dragon's toast!  To life's little blessings:  wars, plagues and all forms of evil.  Their presence keeps us alert --- and their absence makes us grateful." -T.A. Barron[/SIZE]

crkrueger

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #169 on: April 25, 2017, 05:46:49 PM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;959424
3e D&D designers? All men.

4e D&D designers? All men.

5e D&D lead designers and writers? All men.

In nearly twenty years there hasn't been a single woman with a hand on the reins of The World's Most Popular.  Women are represented in each of these editions in editing and graphic design and production, but not as game designers or writers.

Looking at the collection of pathetic asshats who actually wrote for those games, can you honestly say with a straight face that there were no women game designers talented enough to sit in one of those chairs? And if that's true, then why the fuck not? What is it about how gaming companies go about finding and developing game designers that's resulted in this disparity for at least the last twenty years?


Of course there were probably women that could have done better.  But the CEO of Paizo is a woman who worked for WotC and White Wolf, you're telling me she purposely didn't pick a woman to write Pathfinder?  Where did Sarah Newton come from and what are her connections?  How did she break through besides being talented?  You're talking about D&D, belonging to a billion-dollar toy company, but what about Indie Press Revolution/Forgie/Storygame stuff?  I see a lot of little storygames written by women, maybe storygames are pulling in more women designers than D&D for the same reason Vampire drew more women proportionately than D&D.  Maybe women, being in general more educated, aren't going to take pittance jobs or contract jobs without benefits - I've seen studies that say women are better at long-term stable career planning then men, who are more impulsive.

There could be many reasons for the under-representation, but you don't just pick an answer out of a hat and declare it Fact.  You analyze the problem, find out if it is an actual "problem", ie. there's women who want to work in the tabletop RPG industry, want to be a game designer, and can't get a job (not to mention not be able to do what Kevin Crawford did, all by his lonesome with no permission needed from anyone).

If you just assume Cultural Momentum, Patriarchy, Discrimination, Sexism or FFS actual Misogyny without really identifying it, you're not going to fix anything.
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Bedrockbrendan

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #170 on: April 25, 2017, 06:05:38 PM »
2E had quite a few female writers (especially with stuff like modules) if I recall correctly. A lot of the Ravenloft stuff was designed by women.

Omega

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #171 on: April 25, 2017, 06:15:56 PM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;959424
3e D&D designers? All men.

4e D&D designers? All men.

5e D&D lead designers and writers? All men.

In nearly twenty years there hasn't been a single woman with a hand on the reins of The World's Most Popular.


3e PHB Editor: Julia Martin. Assistant editor: Penny Williams. Art Director: Dawn Murin. What exactly do you think editors do? They have their hands on the reigns of the whole thing. DMG on the other hand... Different story. But do not underestimate the power the editor and directors have over a product.

Omega

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #172 on: April 25, 2017, 06:28:04 PM »
Quote from: Christopher Brady;959430
2e All men.

1e All men.

0e All men.

Which begs the question, what does it prove?  Did Gary Gygax actively exclude women from his game?  Did Dave Arneson (I may misspelling his name, apologies if I am) do so?  Or is it because not many girls or women were interested in the style of play.  Will we ever know?

All were getting is who worked on D&D, not WHY.  And that's the bigger question:  Why did it turn out this way?

But all we're getting in response is suppositions that some people are trying to push as fact.

Why? Because its usually one or two guys starting up their own company and writing their own game.

When I was doing Red Shetland was I supposed to stop and say. "Hey? Theres no women in this one person business? I better fire myself and hire some girl. For EQUALITY!"

And thats oft the case with a startup company. Its just a few people with an idea. Gender doesnt even factor in.

From what I've read and been told. Alot of the D&D core books were done by one person making a pitch, or showing they had the right vision for a project, and getting it greenlit. Its not that its all guys. Its just that a guy happened to be the one who got the greenlight. FROM THE WOMAN RUNNING THE COMPANY. (Revised and 2e.)

Black Vulmea

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #173 on: April 25, 2017, 08:04:29 PM »
Quote from: CRKrueger;959437
. . . [T]he CEO of Paizo is a woman who worked for WotC and White Wolf, you're telling me she purposely didn't pick a woman to write Pathfinder?

Lisa Stevens was an editor and an executive, not a designer.

I've no idea why she didn't choose a woman to write Pathfinder, and I'd love someone to hear her answer to that question.

Quote from: CRKrueger;959437
Where did Sarah Newton come from and what are her connections?  How did she break through besides being talented?
 
She's published several very well-received roleplaying games for Modiphius, and if I had to guess, I'd say she got that opportunity because she's an excellent writer who works on schedule.

Why aren't there ten or twenty or forty Sarah Evans out there publishing games? Why is she the one example you point to?

Quote from: CRKrueger;959437
You're talking about D&D, belonging to a billion-dollar toy company, but what about Indie Press Revolution/Forgie/Storygame stuff?  I see a lot of little storygames written by women, maybe storygames are pulling in more women designers than D&D for the same reason Vampire drew more women proportionately than D&D.  Maybe women, being in general more educated, aren't going to take pittance jobs or contract jobs without benefits - I've seen studies that say women are better at long-term stable career planning then men, who are more impulsive.

First, you're talking about writers and gaming companies that sell orders of magnitude games fewer than Paizo or Whizbros, so it's a pretty fucking patronizing metric.

Second, do you honestly think a woman wouldn't jump at the chance to design the The World's Most Popular?

Quote from: CRKrueger;959437
There could be many reasons for the under-representation, but you don't just pick an answer out of a hat and declare it Fact.

I don't have an answer, but I have a much clearer idea of the problem that the knuckle-draggers do.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;959430
2e All men.

1e All men.

0e All men.

I chose 3e D&D as my baseline because of the change in demographics among tabletop roleplaying gamers that followed Vampire: The Masquerade in '91. V:TM was the gateway for many women gamers into the hobby..

Quote from: Christopher Brady;959430
Which begs the question, what does it prove?

It proves that gaming companies haven't invested in women designers enough to trust one to design an edition of the flagship game for the entire fucking hobby.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;959442
2E had quite a few female writers (especially with stuff like modules) if I recall correctly. A lot of the Ravenloft stuff was designed by women.

Yes, stuff that sells orders of magnitudes less than the actual rule books.

Again, that's an incredibly patronizing metric.

Quote from: Omega;959447
3e PHB Editor: Julia Martin. Assistant editor: Penny Williams. Art Director: Dawn Murin. What exactly do you think editors do? They have their hands on the reigns of the whole thing. DMG on the other hand... Different story. But do not underestimate the power the editor and directors have over a product.

Omega, you are thisclose to ending up on my 'too stupid to even read posts by' list.

[pedantic pissant moment] And it's 'reins,' you dumb fucker, not "reigns." [/pedantic pissant moment]
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Christopher Brady

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #174 on: April 25, 2017, 08:08:15 PM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;959465
It proves that gaming companies haven't invested in women designers enough to trust one to design an edition of the flagship game for the entire fucking hobby.

How do you know no one invested?  Were women turned away?  Were they simply not there to be found?  Is there another factor that your incredibly simplistic assumption is likely not seeing?
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Omega

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #175 on: April 25, 2017, 08:20:21 PM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;959465
Omega, you are thisclose to ending up on my 'too stupid to even read posts by' list.

[pedantic pissant moment] And it's 'reins,' you dumb fucker, not "reigns." [/pedantic pissant moment]

Is this after you put yourself on your own ignore list? Because you are doing a way better job of this than I ever could.

But do keep struggling.

Bedrockbrendan

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #176 on: April 25, 2017, 09:01:47 PM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;959465

Yes, stuff that sells orders of magnitudes less than the actual rule books.

Again, that's an incredibly patronizing metric.
 [/pedantic pissant moment]

BV I wasn't making that observation to weigh in on the debate, just to correct the idea that there were not women designers during the 2E period. It wasn't just the modules. The Realm of Terror Box Set was written by Bruce Nesmith and Andria Heyday. Besides boxed sets, with a line like that, modules were pretty important and I remember a lot of them being written by women. And with 2E the setting books were a pretty important thing as well. I wasn't saying that to suggest there shouldn't be more women designing now or that there isn't an issue. As I said I wasn't weighing in on the OP. It does seem like after 2E, with D&D at least, there were fewer women designers. But I recall the 90s having more female designers for D&D than the 2000s (though I am just going by memory here so I could be wrong). Either way, if Green Ronin wants to hire a female design team, I am fine with that. That wasn't why I commented.

Ratman_tf

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #177 on: April 25, 2017, 09:04:51 PM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;959465
I don't have an answer, but I have a much clearer idea of the problem that the knuckle-draggers do.

So what do you think is the problem?
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The Butcher

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #178 on: April 25, 2017, 09:33:41 PM »
Conservative pearl-clutching makes liberal pearl-clutching look sensible and even justified.

Nexus

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Looks like Posthuman Studios is jumping on the same bandwagon as Green Ronin
« Reply #179 on: April 25, 2017, 09:54:36 PM »
Quote from: The Butcher;959478
Conservative pearl-clutching makes liberal pearl-clutching look sensible and even justified.

Who's who in this thread?
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