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Author Topic: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....  (Read 1396 times)

Omega

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2020, 06:36:57 am »
Apparently WOTC does not have full control over the Dragonlance IP.

This came to light during the initial phases of 5e. WOTC wanted to use the Dragonlance setting for 5e rather than FR. Problem is they wanted to "reimagine" the setting and had some other writer work on it. W&H got wind of it and had words with the writer who was apparently not aware that they had not been consulted on this and both baulked at continuing and W&H were able to somehow stonewall WOTC from doing as they pleased. Otherwise WOTC probably would have just ignore them and used the setting willy nilly.

According to notes on it the base premise was to reboot the setting and start at the beginning. But instead play with a setting where the heroes never met up at the tavern and then cascade the setting from that change and how it would impact all the rest.

Armchair Gamer

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2020, 07:47:32 am »
Apparently WOTC does not have full control over the Dragonlance IP.

This came to light during the initial phases of 5e. WOTC wanted to use the Dragonlance setting for 5e rather than FR. Problem is they wanted to "reimagine" the setting and had some other writer work on it. W&H got wind of it and had words with the writer who was apparently not aware that they had not been consulted on this and both baulked at continuing and W&H were able to somehow stonewall WOTC from doing as they pleased. Otherwise WOTC probably would have just ignore them and used the setting willy nilly.

According to notes on it the base premise was to reboot the setting and start at the beginning. But instead play with a setting where the heroes never met up at the tavern and then cascade the setting from that change and how it would impact all the rest.

   Jim Butcher was the author consulted, and he decided not to move forward with the project after finding out Weis & Hickman were not on board with it. WotC has full legal rights to do whatever they want with Dragonlance, but there are author and fan politics that mean going ahead without W&H's acquiescence usually causes problems. To most fans and some creatives, DL=Weis & Hickman, and you can't get them on board otherwise.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2020, 08:18:37 am »
   Jim Butcher was the author consulted, and he decided not to move forward with the project after finding out Weis & Hickman were not on board with it. WotC has full legal rights to do whatever they want with Dragonlance, but there are author and fan politics that mean going ahead without W&H's acquiescence usually causes problems. To most fans and some creatives, DL=Weis & Hickman, and you can't get them on board otherwise.
I admit a Jim Butcher reimagining of Krynn would not be the worst thing cranked out by WotC, but at the same time full props to him for hitting the brakes when he found out Weis and Hickman were not on board.

The whole 'who controls DL' has come up before, when Weis threw that shit-fit over Lord Soth getting pulled into Ravenloft. At the time I thought she was being silly, but I have to wonder now -- was her reaction just 'creator anger' or was there some legal basis behind it?

Armchair Gamer

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2020, 08:25:50 am »
The whole 'who controls DL' has come up before, when Weis threw that shit-fit over Lord Soth getting pulled into Ravenloft. At the time I thought she was being silly, but I have to wonder now -- was her reaction just 'creator anger' or was there some legal basis behind it?

   As someone who's intimately familiar with Dragonlance and Ravenloft, I can safely say 'creator anger.' Soth was conceived on TSR time and money, and so was purely TSR property. With the benefit of hindsight, I think putting him in Ravenloft probably caused more trouble than it was worth, but TSR was firmly within their rights.

Mistwell

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2020, 11:12:11 am »
...

That is not what the complaint says. 1) No advance has been paid to anyone yet, 2) an advance was going to be given to Hickman and Weiss, not to WOTC.  Paragraphs 20 and 36.

Thanks to Pemerton for highlighting that for me.


I'm reading something wrong then:

Page 8:25:
...
25.On March 29, 2019, Plaintiff-Creators and PRH entered into the Publishing Agreement. PRH remitted the signing payment due under the Publishing Agreement to Plaintiff Creators in April 2019. Per the terms of the License Agreement, Plaintiff-Creators in turn remitted a portion of the signing payment to Defendant%u2014an amount Defendant continues to retain despite having effectively terminated the License Agreement.

I'm no expert. So if a "signing payment" is not the same as an advance. OK. I stand corrected.

Doesn't change the fact that PRH PAID Hickman and Wise some cash based on potential return of investment. Some of this money went  to WOTC.

Who killed the deal.

Then kept their part of the "signing bonus" even though they have now made it impossible for PRH to recoup that money in future DL book sales. Now there may very well be clauses that once the signing bonus is paid - it's paid. No takebacks. Still a bit of a dick move though.

Pemerton then, after I re-posted his reply, added this:

from para 25:

Per the terms of the License Agreement, Plaintiff-Creators in turn [ie after getting their advance from the publisher] remitted a portion of the signing payment to Defendant—an amount Defendant continues to retain despite having effectively terminated the License Agreement.​

THANKS Pemerton. Grr.

Shasarak

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2020, 03:48:23 pm »
I'm not a fan of Dragonlance. For the same reason, I am not a fan of The Dragonriders Of Pern. Dragons would not lower themselves to having an inferior lifeform use them as a mount. Dragons have too much ego to ever degrade themselves in such a manner.

The thing with the Dragons in Dragonriders of Pern is [spoiler] they are just genetically engineered flying lizards[/spoiler]
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Mishihari

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2020, 06:39:31 pm »
Whoa.  Dragonlance by Jim Butcher would have been amazing.  Props to the man though for respecting others' creative efforts.

Slipshot762

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2020, 07:23:29 pm »
As a setting to play in dragonlance in 2e was not, to me at least, very good...it seemed kind of generic and empty outside of the heroes of the lance campaign. If you played as the heroes of the lance or played characters that were stand ins, and played through the whole story with minor changes to dress it up as a quantum variation of the novels, like for example making verminard a minotaur, then it wasn't too bad. But the entire setting seemed define by the war of lance and while it was a big world it had no character but that which the dm defined outside of that war of the lance campaign, outside of that the dm was basically homebrewing the whole map.

hedgehobbit

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2020, 10:40:32 am »
A bit off topic, but I found some Dragonlance books that my wife owned before we were married. Was the first book something like "Dragons at Dawn"?

Omega

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2020, 10:48:09 am »
The three books in the series are
Dragons of Autumn Twilight in 84
Dragons of Winter Night in 85
Dragons of Spring Dawning in 85

Apparently there is a reboot series of books where it ends instead with all or most of the main characters killed off.

Armchair Gamer

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Re: Woot. More Dragon Lance books....oh, maybe not....
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2020, 10:51:25 am »
A bit off topic, but I found some Dragonlance books that my wife owned before we were married. Was the first book something like "Dragons at Dawn"?

  Dragons of Spring Dawning is the third volume of the original Chronicles trilogy. "A Dawn of Dragons" is the sixth book of that trilogy repackaged for the Young Adult market (with some profanity taken out) from back in 2004.