Quote from: Benoist;537465You wrote the OP?

Well I guess, in that case... you can go fuck yourself. I'm not going anywhere.

Cheers,
Benoist

Yeah it was GnomeWorks who posted it. Morrus pretty much told him the same thing you just did.

GW was railing against a fantasy anyways. I have been gaming for a long time and have never read a lot of stuff like Vance. I have always drawn on whatever fantasy happens to be of interest to me at the time. What GW fails to understand is D&D may have acquired much of its shape from those early infuences, and this is what makes its mechanics unique, but the core system is capable of supporting all kinds of flavor (and there are a whole slew of mechanical options out there to work with). When i think of spell memorization and fireball I don't equate that with vance, I equate it with D&D (because that is what it has become). People who only started the hobby during 3e also tend to equate it to the game. So it doesn't matter if the mechanic is thirty years old, because it has been in every edition of D&D (except the least succesful version) it is an essential part of its identity.

One only has to look at the flavor D&D has drawn on over the years to see how wrong GW's complaints are. The stuff coming out in the 90s campaign settings was pretty experimental. Eberron during 3e was also quite different. 3E in general got very manga-like with some of the prestige classes and builds. And through this entire time stuff like conan and lord of the rings remained relevant (i believe GW when he says his friends never read vance, but arguing that frodo and conan are equally obscure is just silly)--- so much so that we had a massively succesful film based on it ten years ago and we have an upcoming film based on the hobbit.

Quote from: Dodger;537418I wonder if the popularity of teen-angsty vampire franchises like Twilight and True Blood had any impact on sales of White Wolf's Vampire.

The current popularity of paranormal romance at least spurred them to publish that little supplement for VtR, Strange Dead Love.

(It always feels a little jarring to see True Blood described as a teen drama or some such, though, even if the TV show did add a teenage character who's not present in the original books.)

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;537472Yeah it was GnomeWorks who posted it. Morrus pretty much told him the same thing you just did.

GW was railing against a fantasy anyways. I have been gaming for a long time and have never read a lot of stuff like Vance. I have always drawn on whatever fantasy happens to be of interest to me at the time. What GW fails to understand is D&D may have acquired much of its shape from those early infuences, and this is what makes its mechanics unique, but the core system is capable of supporting all kinds of flavor (and there are a whole slew of mechanical options out there to work with). When i think of spell memorization and fireball I don't equate that with vance, I equate it with D&D (because that is what it has become). People who only started the hobby during 3e also tend to equate it to the game. So it doesn't matter if the mechanic is thirty years old, because it has been in every edition of D&D (except the least succesful version) it is an essential part of its identity.

One only has to look at the flavor D&D has drawn on over the years to see how wrong GW's complaints are. The stuff coming out in the 90s campaign settings was pretty experimental. Eberron during 3e was also quite different. 3E in general got very manga-like with some of the prestige classes and builds. And through this entire time stuff like conan and lord of the rings remained relevant (i believe GW when he says his friends never read vance, but arguing that frodo and conan are equally obscure is just silly)--- so much so that we had a massively succesful film based on it ten years ago and we have an upcoming film based on the hobbit.

Damn fine post!

Quote from: GnomeWorks;537464Fucking sick of the retards at EN World touting that line, and it's fucking stupid, and not at all a reasonable response to my "troll."

Equating 4e with new takes on fantasy is fucking stupid. AED powers and skill challenges and all that other idiotic shit is not at all equatable to trying to bring in new sources of fiction to draw inspiration from. Bad design is just fucking bad design.

Oh petulant youth...

Quote from: GnomeWorks;537464Fucking sick of the retards at EN World touting that line, and it's fucking stupid, and not at all a reasonable response to my "troll."

Equating 4e with new takes on fantasy is fucking stupid. AED powers and skill challenges and all that other idiotic shit is not at all equatable to trying to bring in new sources of fiction to draw inspiration from. Bad design is just fucking bad design.

Well, here is my reply, without the "Yeah? Fuck you too!" bit: stop trying to fit the square peg of your preferences into the round hole of D&D. If you try to force it, one of the two pieces will break, or the results will still not work well. There are other games (like maybe FATE or Wushu) that do the job easier and far, far better. They don't come with a huge fan base like D&D, but you should be able to find enough people to get a group started.

You know what would be great from a business standpoint?

DDI, full OGL, and digital-only crunch treadmill.

Your gearheads get what they want with no print costs.
3PP can't into the splat gut 'cause they're not in the character builder.
3PP handles your adventures output for you and strengthens your brand (the way the OGL could have been).

As for dead-tree supplements, they should stick with Ghostwalk size/scale settings. Not 2e style incompatible worlds, but cities that can be dragged and dropped into home campaigns, with a good bit of specific mapping, statted NPCs, and relatively open ended sample adventures.

Quote from: Melan;537480Well, here is my reply, without the "Yeah? Fuck you too!" bit: stop trying to fit the square peg of your preferences into the round hole of D&D. If you try to force it, one of the two pieces will break, or the results will still not work well. There are other games (like maybe FATE or Wushu) that do the job easier and far, far better. They don't come with a huge fan base like D&D, but you should be able to find enough people to get a group started.

Yeah, I don't get that, either.

I mean, check out his sig: "Mechanics should reflect flavor. Always."  So instead of playing a game that is designed to work with the flavor he prefers, he wants some sort of iconoclastic re-invention of an existing game.  Why?  

The most common answer to that question seems to be about the D&D "brand" rather than about playing and enjoying a game.  "For the brand to succeed in a new age..." kind of thing.

Another common answer boils down to "D&D is the most popular game with the most players; I want the rules and approach that I like to be the one that is the most popular and has the most players."  However, D&D has been the most popular RPG for a long time for a reason.  If you change D&D into something else, with new mechanics reflecting an entirely new flavor, there's a very real chance that you'll undermine that reason, the masses won't flock to "New D&D's" banner, and D&D will lose that popularity and definitive, preeminent status.  (I suspect that the direction WotC is trying to take with 5e is the result of learning this lesson the hard way.)

Unless you happen to be a WotC brand manager or something, my advice is to stop worrying about re-creating the latest official D&D in your own image.  Just find a game you like (or create a game you like), play it, and enjoy it.  You'll have fun and people will be less likely to tell you to fuck off.

Last time i checked Cowboy bebop was a late ninties scifi noir show not a D&d style fantasy series so i think the OP got his games mixed up, also there are plenty of japanese rpg's that emulate those shows one of which (Tenra Basho Zero) should hopefully be out later this year in english so maybe instead of trying to force anime/manga tropes into D&D(which other than the artwork wouldnt really benefit anyway) you could go find another game that is better suited to that stuff(sword world does jrpg style fantasy well though isnt currently available in english) or learn japanese and get the rights to an rpg from japan that does.

QuoteFucking sick of the retards at EN World touting that line, and it's fucking stupid, and not at all a reasonable response to my "troll."

Equating 4e with new takes on fantasy is fucking stupid. AED powers and skill challenges and all that other idiotic shit is not at all equatable to trying to bring in new sources of fiction to draw inspiration from. Bad design is just fucking bad design.

Lol, you weeaboo faggot.  I had no idea you posted here, but I'm amused that you do.  Go suck a Japanese micro while writing your Harry Potter fanfic.  You're an arrogant, petulant child who has no concept of taste.  J.K. Rowling's writing is mediocre, and your anime shows are poorly-drawn, poorly-plotted, poorly-written turds that only have a Western following because anti-social nerds like yourself masturbate to GRORIOUS NIPPON.

If you want an RPG that specifically emulates one of your shit-tier choices, then you're welcome to write one.  However, D&D cannot accommodate what you want because D&D is based around those "old-school" stories about Conan and Aragorn and all those boring characters (unlike all those well-rounded Bleach guys :rolleyes:).  It's not about adolescent wand-wavers stopping the Dark Lord through the Power of Love.  It's not about your Japfag sci-fi adventures.  It's about wizards with magic missile and fighters in plate armor and rogues disarming traps.

What you want is so far from what D&D is that you'd be turning it into not-D&D.  If you want not-D&D, go play 4e or 13th Age or True20 or any of the number of other systems out there that will do a better job of simulating your idiotic fapfests than the game that's about dungeon and dragons.  Don't shit up our game in the process, you entitled little cunt.

P.S. Blow me.

Quote from: GnomeWorks;537464Fucking sick of the retards at EN World touting that line, and it's fucking stupid, and not at all a reasonable response to my "troll."

Equating 4e with new takes on fantasy is fucking stupid. AED powers and skill challenges and all that other idiotic shit is not at all equatable to trying to bring in new sources of fiction to draw inspiration from. Bad design is just fucking bad design.

Fuck off with your kiddie cartoon horseshit otaku.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;537335Philotomy Jurament doesn't have to quit gaming, he just needs to get out of the way.

In 5E terms, this means that the game doesn't contain so much grognard that it ruins the game for those of us who want a modern D&D.

In 4e terms, your ideas and your edition meant the crowning of Paizo as the #1 D&D company.  Now you want WotC to look to you for the encore huh?

Hmm what are chances of that happening?

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;537335Philotomy Jurament doesn't have to quit gaming, he just needs to get out of the way.

In 5E terms, this means that the game doesn't contain so much grognard that it ruins the game for those of us who want a modern D&D.

At the risk of being trolled, what is a "modern D&D"?

Quote from: B.T.;537503At the risk of being trolled, what is a "modern D&D"?

Apparently it's one where the iconics look like this...

Quote from: Spinachcat;536996The new Conan movie and the new John Carter movies tanked.

The Conan movie tanked because it sucked, not because it was about Conan.

John Carter didn't do stellar (not quite tanked... it's still in the top 10 movies of the year thus far) because it was shittily under-promoted.

So I'm not sure either has anything to do with the characters involved.

By the same token, Last Airbender tanked as bad as Conan and quite a bit worse than John Carter. And I won't blame that on the character either. The movie sucked.