Listen, you old fogies, I want my animes!

danbuter · May 08, 2012, 11:18:06 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard;537341If you kids had ponied up the cash for the product instead of smugly saying " I don't need to buy books because I have DDI" then we might not be staring 5E in the face.

Bingo! And the same issue is going to make 5e fail.

1989 · May 08, 2012, 11:24:06 AM

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;537273No problem, dude, I'm way ahead of you. I've been off the edition carousel for years. To me, "D&D" means certain things (i.e., the things that embodied the game from the start, and that you see as outdated and needing to be swept away in a "Next Generation D&D"). I'll probably always see it that way, and see different games as...well, different games.

But don't let my narrow vision of D&D stop you! I assure you that I have no investment in "D&D Next." I leave it entirely in your hands, to form as you will and to take in whatever direction you like. (Didn't you guys already do that with 4e? Eh, I digress...whatever...)

WotC keeps trying to lure me to whatever "D&D du jour" they're selling, but it's kind of like being propositioned by an aging transsexual streetwalker squeezed into some 70s-era disco pants: "C'mon baby, it's the same as it ever was, I promise. I'll give you the real deal, just what you want. Back to the dungeon, baby. The game remains the same. I'm the best of all worlds, you can play me any way you want..." I'm just not buying it (you might say I'm not in the market). I assure you that as far as "D&D Next" goes, I have Gone Away.

So spike up your hair, grab your massively oversized sword, and bust loose your Dragon Tail Kick. Go on with your bad self, brother. "D&D Next" is your oyster. Shuck it and slurp it down. I wish you joy and hope you find a pearl.

+1 Ah geez, that's the funniest thing I've read in a while. More! More!

ggroy · May 08, 2012, 11:46:53 AM

Quote from: danbuter;537346Bingo! And the same issue is going to make 5e fail.

In such a scenario of players using DDI instead of buying splatbooks, wonder what WotC will do in regard to the splatbooks treadmill business model.

One strategy is to crank out "system free/lite" supplement books, such as the upcoming "Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms" and "Menzoberranzan" books. Dunno who would buy such system free/lite books, besides the compulsive collectors and maybe some DMs.

Benoist · May 08, 2012, 11:51:37 AM

Quote from: Melan;537277You are mistaken here. These kind of people don't want people off the edition carousel, they often want them out of the hobby, and have a whole fucked-up little mythology to justify that wish. It's an idea of progress through weeding out non-progressives (and no, I will not take the analogy any further, it's creepy enough within the context of edition wars about roleplaying games). Their idea is this: for gaming to live and prosper, Philotomy Jurament has to quit gaming.

You got some chosen pieces of evidence to show us? No problem if you don't have the time, it's just that this seems to be far beyond the pale and knowing how meticulous you can be when asked, well... let's just say I'm a curious SOB.

ggroy · May 08, 2012, 11:56:19 AM

At times I wonder if the market for WotC produced crunch heavy player splatbooks, has already been "dead" over the last several years due to the DDI.

(It seems to be largely a dead market for 3PP 4E books since mid-2009).

This Guy · May 08, 2012, 01:03:56 PM

Quote from: mhensley;537014The LotR movies were a huge success and I fully expect that the Hobbit movie will be a big hit as well. As far as Anime goes, Lodoss War or Slayers anyone? D&D works pretty damn well for those.

Most of the players of the current generation who watch anime would not think of Lodoss or Slayers at all if they were told that D&D could handle the shows they watch. They would be more likely to think of slice-of-life shows, over-the-top shounen, moe fetishism, or, at best, modern fantasy. The D&D-style fantasy that Lodoss and Slayers engaged in is a source of parody now.

Dodger · May 08, 2012, 01:45:54 PM

I wonder if the popularity of teen-angsty vampire franchises like Twilight and True Blood had any impact on sales of White Wolf's Vampire.

Bedrockbrendan · May 08, 2012, 01:58:49 PM

Quote from: Dodger;537418I wonder if the popularity of teen-angsty vampire franchises like Twilight and True Blood had any impact on sales of White Wolf's Vampire.

I don't know but Vampire the Masquerade definitely got a boost from angsty stuff like Interview with a Vampire (film) and the 1992 Dracula movie.

I dont see D&D absorbing potter or twilight well. But someone could eaily make a new game geared for that audience.

Also, one has to question (regarding anime) how many gamers want anime in tyeir rpgs. I mean their are anime style rpgs out there, but they a not terribly popular. It is possible lots of people who like anie and like D&D, dont want those things to intermingle much.

Halloween Jack · May 08, 2012, 03:34:46 PM

Newest edition of D&D = anime has been a laughably dumb complaint for years now. When 3e came out it was compared to Diablo. I didn't play D&D until 3e came out, and before then I'd already identified D&D as a game with characters who had a versatile array of comic-book-level powers, without much to do with Vance or Howard other than the fire-and-forget setup of the spells. Couldn't high level fighters get some crazy number of attacks and Smash enemies for quite a lot of damage...in Basic D&D?

Sommerjon · May 08, 2012, 03:58:24 PM

Quote from: Exploderwizard;537341Well 4E was pretty fucking grognard free IMHO. If you kids had ponied up the cash for the product instead of smugly saying " I don't need to buy books because I have DDI" then we might not be staring 5E in the face.

Hmm when I resubbed to the DDI last Wednesday there was 72,524 people signed up for the DDI, as of today there is now 72,670 people now signed up. At 7$ per month that would be....508,690$ per month WotC is making on the DDI. To make the same amount using dead tree materials they would need to sell about 50,000+ books per month.

GnomeWorks · May 08, 2012, 04:01:46 PM

Quote from: Fiasco;537017Talk about tilting at windmills. The OP already got what they asked for. It was called 4E and it tanked.

Fucking sick of the retards at EN World touting that line, and it's fucking stupid, and not at all a reasonable response to my "troll."

Equating 4e with new takes on fantasy is fucking stupid. AED powers and skill challenges and all that other idiotic shit is not at all equatable to trying to bring in new sources of fiction to draw inspiration from. Bad design is just fucking bad design.

Benoist · May 08, 2012, 04:04:01 PM

Quote from: GnomeWorks;537464Fucking sick of the retards at EN World touting that line, and it's fucking stupid, and not at all a reasonable response to my "troll."

Equating 4e with new takes on fantasy is fucking stupid. AED powers and skill challenges and all that other idiotic shit is not at all equatable to trying to bring in new sources of fiction to draw inspiration from. Bad design is just fucking bad design.

You wrote the OP?

Well I guess, in that case... you can go fuck yourself. I'm not going anywhere.

Cheers,
Benoist

1989 · May 08, 2012, 04:04:52 PM

Quote from: GnomeWorks;537464Fucking sick of the retards at EN World touting that line, and it's fucking stupid, and not at all a reasonable response to my "troll."

Equating 4e with new takes on fantasy is fucking stupid. AED powers and skill challenges and all that other idiotic shit is not at all equatable to trying to bring in new sources of fiction to draw inspiration from. Bad design is just fucking bad design.

Your avatar sucks.

Take your anime and beat it.

Bedrockbrendan · May 08, 2012, 04:12:19 PM

Quote from: GnomeWorks;537464Fucking sick of the retards at EN World touting that line, and it's fucking stupid, and not at all a reasonable response to my "troll."

Equating 4e with new takes on fantasy is fucking stupid. AED powers and skill challenges and all that other idiotic shit is not at all equatable to trying to bring in new sources of fiction to draw inspiration from. Bad design is just fucking bad design.

I think people had stuff like Dragonborn, Tieflings, and Eladrin in mind when they made that comparison (I was one of the people who made this suggestion (due to the overall flavor of 4e) and I think it is a valid point about the mechanics. Unless you were suggesting what D&D really needs is to be a modern setting about vampires and werewolves in love or schoolboy wizards. But when most people argue about modern fantasy tropes and D&D they seem to be talking about stuff like what races and classes should be in the PHB.

Bedrockbrendan · May 08, 2012, 04:17:51 PM

Quote from: Sommerjon;537462Hmm when I resubbed to the DDI last Wednesday there was 72,524 people signed up for the DDI, as of today there is now 72,670 people now signed up. At 7$ per month that would be....508,690$ per month WotC is making on the DDI. To make the same amount using dead tree materials they would need to sell about 50,000+ books per month.

The big question here is how much it cost them to make and maintain DDI. So far I haven't seen any reliable estimates on that (I have just seen a huge range of numbers from people online who say they have expertise in the field). My guess is this is certainly a reliable regular source of income once you make back your initial investment and if the cost of updating and maintaining it isn't too high. The downside is it probably eats into their book sales (most 4e players I know say they don't really buy the books anymore and just use DDI instead).