Quote from: oggsmash on August 29, 2022, 03:59:41 PM

Quote from: 5Solas on August 20, 2022, 12:01:44 AM
4 people but i want to run solo on my own at times.  I'll check out LotFP and Pacesetter Games. DCC seemed perfect. What a bummer. 

   Though I agree with the sentiment of do not give money to people who hate you....I am not certain if Goodman Games hates me or if they simply have to "pay the mafia" so there is no "be a shame if something happened to your nice business" scenario played out.   So even if a company is red.... I do have the habit of weighing how red they are versus how good their game is.  If I did not already have DCC, but I knew how good it was (to my style of play and games I enjoy, everything is subjective) I would honestly buy it anyway based off the things that got them on the red list (which look alot like "mafia payoffs" versus overt pushing of an agenda) because the game is good.   Just something to consider.

I thought DCC was awesome, and then I read something where they said they would be changing pronouns in future printings.  That was my jumping off point.  I had purchased their core rules, and I intended to start buying more products; but then I read that mess.  Nope.

Quote from: Draca on August 30, 2022, 02:35:20 PM
Where Does Appendix N, fall on this list?

The actual one? https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/Appendix_N The BrOSR book? In rem the author of the latter had some anti-Semitic commentary that'd likely make him Yellow at least? Obviously right wing not Woke though.

Anyone know where LakeSide Games fits on the list (By This Axe I Hack, Powers & Paragons, The Narrative Toolbox)? I have been enjoying "By This Axe I Hack" tremendously and it is a near-perfect Sword and Sorcery game based on my experiences with it so far. I have noticed that their website does include links to some of the Red Listed games and companies, but it hasn't really been updated much since 2013.

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 30, 2022, 06:24:09 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on August 29, 2022, 03:59:41 PM

Quote from: 5Solas on August 20, 2022, 12:01:44 AM
4 people but i want to run solo on my own at times.  I'll check out LotFP and Pacesetter Games. DCC seemed perfect. What a bummer. 

   Though I agree with the sentiment of do not give money to people who hate you....I am not certain if Goodman Games hates me or if they simply have to "pay the mafia" so there is no "be a shame if something happened to your nice business" scenario played out.   So even if a company is red.... I do have the habit of weighing how red they are versus how good their game is.  If I did not already have DCC, but I knew how good it was (to my style of play and games I enjoy, everything is subjective) I would honestly buy it anyway based off the things that got them on the red list (which look alot like "mafia payoffs" versus overt pushing of an agenda) because the game is good.   Just something to consider.

I thought DCC was awesome, and then I read something where they said they would be changing pronouns in future printings.  That was my jumping off point.  I had purchased their core rules, and I intended to start buying more products; but then I read that mess.  Nope.

  I am not sure what gender neutral means, and I had a shitload of their stuff before those sorts of signals started.  I think I might have still bought the core rules if I did not already have them, but I can not say about the rest.  I likely would have waited to see exactly what they meant with their pronoun word salad.

Quote from: oggsmash on August 30, 2022, 07:04:42 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 30, 2022, 06:24:09 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on August 29, 2022, 03:59:41 PM

Quote from: 5Solas on August 20, 2022, 12:01:44 AM
4 people but i want to run solo on my own at times.  I'll check out LotFP and Pacesetter Games. DCC seemed perfect. What a bummer. 

   Though I agree with the sentiment of do not give money to people who hate you....I am not certain if Goodman Games hates me or if they simply have to "pay the mafia" so there is no "be a shame if something happened to your nice business" scenario played out.   So even if a company is red.... I do have the habit of weighing how red they are versus how good their game is.  If I did not already have DCC, but I knew how good it was (to my style of play and games I enjoy, everything is subjective) I would honestly buy it anyway based off the things that got them on the red list (which look alot like "mafia payoffs" versus overt pushing of an agenda) because the game is good.   Just something to consider.

I thought DCC was awesome, and then I read something where they said they would be changing pronouns in future printings.  That was my jumping off point.  I had purchased their core rules, and I intended to start buying more products; but then I read that mess.  Nope.

  I am not sure what gender neutral means, and I had a shitload of their stuff before those sorts of signals started.  I think I might have still bought the core rules if I did not already have them, but I can not say about the rest.  I likely would have waited to see exactly what they meant with their pronoun word salad.

I think it is also telling, a little in any event, that their Sword & Sorcery fiction zine (Tales from the Magician's Skull, which reminds me of the Adventures of Conan television series) is currently embarking on something they're calling the New Edge Sword & Sorcery, which is supposed to be Sword & Sorcery without its "sexism and racism" or any of the other tropes that apparently make Sword & Sorcery fiction genre non-inclusive, as described in one of the authors of the new genre blog here https://scottoden.wordpress.com/2022/04/20/putting-a-new-edge-on-an-old-blade/

I know this is a reference to Sword & Sorcery fiction, and not roleplaying, but I can't help but feel that it spills over, even if only just a little bit, and may be why DCC itself is changing its tone about certain things.

Quote from: MadCarthos on August 30, 2022, 07:22:45 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on August 30, 2022, 07:04:42 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on August 30, 2022, 06:24:09 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on August 29, 2022, 03:59:41 PM

Quote from: 5Solas on August 20, 2022, 12:01:44 AM
4 people but i want to run solo on my own at times.  I'll check out LotFP and Pacesetter Games. DCC seemed perfect. What a bummer. 

   Though I agree with the sentiment of do not give money to people who hate you....I am not certain if Goodman Games hates me or if they simply have to "pay the mafia" so there is no "be a shame if something happened to your nice business" scenario played out.   So even if a company is red.... I do have the habit of weighing how red they are versus how good their game is.  If I did not already have DCC, but I knew how good it was (to my style of play and games I enjoy, everything is subjective) I would honestly buy it anyway based off the things that got them on the red list (which look alot like "mafia payoffs" versus overt pushing of an agenda) because the game is good.   Just something to consider.

I thought DCC was awesome, and then I read something where they said they would be changing pronouns in future printings.  That was my jumping off point.  I had purchased their core rules, and I intended to start buying more products; but then I read that mess.  Nope.

  I am not sure what gender neutral means, and I had a shitload of their stuff before those sorts of signals started.  I think I might have still bought the core rules if I did not already have them, but I can not say about the rest.  I likely would have waited to see exactly what they meant with their pronoun word salad.

I think it is also telling, a little in any event, that their Sword & Sorcery fiction zine (Tales from the Magician's Skull, which reminds me of the Adventures of Conan television series) is currently embarking on something they're calling the New Edge Sword & Sorcery, which is supposed to be Sword & Sorcery without its "sexism and racism" or any of the other tropes that apparently make Sword & Sorcery fiction genre non-inclusive, as described in one of the authors of the new genre blog here https://scottoden.wordpress.com/2022/04/20/putting-a-new-edge-on-an-old-blade/

I know this is a reference to Sword & Sorcery fiction, and not roleplaying, but I can't help but feel that it spills over, even if only just a little bit, and may be why DCC itself is changing its tone about certain things.

So in other words, they want to make a Sword and Sorcery genre without any of the things that make it Sword and Sorcery is what it sounds like to me.

SJWs see sword & sorcery as 'problematic' because it acknowledges racism, sexism, slavery and the like. You know, the kind of things that give gritty realism and verisimilitude.

Also you can't be a narcissist playing a furry character without having your weird talking animal PC killed for being a demon from the outer dark.

I thoroughly endorse S&S and its tropes. 

  Biggest issue for S&S for that lot is it features a strong, direct, violent man who makes his fate with his own hand.  The epitome of toxic masculinity to those nerds.

Quote from: oggsmash on August 31, 2022, 11:22:00 AM
  Biggest issue for S&S for that lot is it features a strong, direct, violent man who makes his fate with his own hand.  The epitome of toxic masculinity to those nerds.

That's the essence of it.  S&S, when it comes down to it, has heroic characters doing heroically masculine things.  Even the women largely do things that are considered "masculine"--e.g., kick-ass warriors/wizards killing and using force to achieve their ends.  The idea of empathy, comfort, care--quintessentially feminine traits--really don't have much place in the S&S genre.

That use of force doesn't have to be "toxic", though the left might think it is.  A character can be some justice-pursing crusader attacking slavers or rescuing Drow or Orc babies from bigots or whatever.  But I'm not sure how you can avoid the essential nature of conflict, mostly violent conflict, at the heart of S&S.

Quote from: Osman Gazi on August 31, 2022, 12:48:11 PM
That's the essence of it.  S&S, when it comes down to it, has heroic characters doing heroically masculine things.  Even the women largely do things that are considered "masculine"--e.g., kick-ass warriors/wizards killing and using force to achieve their ends.  The idea of empathy, comfort, care--quintessentially feminine traits--really don't have much place in the S&S genre.

I think you might have that last point wrong, but the place of empathy, comfort, and care and sword in sorcery stories is a very particular one.

All of the protagonists want those elements. They seek empathy, comfort, and care. Many of the things they do, much of the violence they engage in with the world, is in the pursuit of or the maintenance of empathy, comfort, and care, sometimes for themselves but even more often for other people.

One of the core elements of those stories, however, is that the protagonists can never truly acquire those traits for themselves. Only for a short period, and usually is a precursor to losing it and being thus motivated into more conflict with the world at large.

Most S&S protagonists really want to settle down, one way or another. Sometimes they're just looking for the right person, sometimes they need to conquer a kingdom, but they generally want a connection of a personal nature with other people. The reasons they can't have those things are what drive the stories.

Even that underlying trope to desire and acquire those things for their lives seems to be something that the current political Left want to reject wholeheartedly. That individuals can choose to seek them out and do great works along the way – that's anathema. That the use of force may be justified in the pursuit of these traditionally feminine traits (though not exclusively so; Red Sonja wants to settle down and have a family) really drives them nuts.

But you can't have S&S stories without empathy, comfort, and care taking a very strong place in the overall narrative. It's just not a series of traits that the protagonists themselves get to experience or share. They are huge thematic elements which are almost omnipresent instead.

I searched and I didn't see it but need to add Tim Hutchings, author of Thousand Year Old Vampire. A sample from his website "If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. Yes I mean members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but I'm going to include Trump supporters too. You think the election was fixed and pandemic measures are bad? Go to hell. If you stand by quietly as Republicans take the power of the vote from African Americans in Alabama and compete to hurt trans people as badly as possible then you are part of this problem. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are."

Quote from: Neonsmri on September 01, 2022, 10:47:29 PM
I searched and I didn't see it but need to add Tim Hutchings, author of Thousand Year Old Vampire. A sample from his website "If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. Yes I mean members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but I'm going to include Trump supporters too. You think the election was fixed and pandemic measures are bad? Go to hell. If you stand by quietly as Republicans take the power of the vote from African Americans in Alabama and compete to hurt trans people as badly as possible then you are part of this problem. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are."

He sounds like a nobody

I grabbed a community copy of that game (hey, no money to him, I'm sure that is what he meant, right?)  I plan to play it for Shocktober, will probably put as much of a conservative spin on it as I can since I can think of nothing more conservative than a really old vamp.  Radical activist vamps get staked.

Talsorian Games is already in the correct colour (Yellow) but might be worth to note that they recently added an optional (for now) supplement to the Witcher TRPG that includes wheelchairs intended for adventurers, and prosthetics that are "Better than the original" created by Sara Thompson, notorious for the Combat Wheelchair for DnD. She's also been involved with the 2 most recent books for the game (Book of Tales and A Tome of Chaos) So I'd be extra careful with their products going forward.

PS: They also marketed this supplement as "something pretty cool but needs a bit more time" and delayed their release schedule by a month for it

Quote from: Neonsmri on September 01, 2022, 10:47:29 PM
I searched and I didn't see it but need to add Tim Hutchings, author of Thousand Year Old Vampire. A sample from his website "If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. Yes I mean members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but I'm going to include Trump supporters too. You think the election was fixed and pandemic measures are bad? Go to hell. If you stand by quietly as Republicans take the power of the vote from African Americans in Alabama and compete to hurt trans people as badly as possible then you are part of this problem. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are."

sad as i was going to use his product for my NaNoWriMo contest for writing.

Guess he can fuck off then as he doesn't want my money. 


Edit: Apparently I found I have the community version as well. Fantastic.  I can still keep up with my plan.