If some of the retards here would READ the whole thread, not just skip to the end, they'd see the part where Pundit, Ocule, and others laid out WHY Varg was on the redlist and that he deserved to be there.

Culminating, I might add, in Pundit banhammering two people for blatant anti-Semitism.

But we're the Nazis?

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 11:48:08 AM
If some of the retards here would READ the whole thread, not just skip to the end, they'd see the part where Pundit, Ocule, and others laid out WHY Varg was on the redlist and that he deserved to be there.

Culminating, I might add, in Pundit banhammering two people for blatant anti-Semitism.

But we're the Nazis?

Who has called you a Nazi again?

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 16, 2021, 11:36:23 AM

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 11:31:26 AM
Thats not why steve jackson is yellow, the reason is mentioned earlier in the thread. LaNasa hasn't really done anything to merit any other category, who cares that he ran as a politician. The reason listed was just passable as to why yellow, because I had wanted to categorize them as green. Though it's a bit souring when a company like steve jackson games takes a political stance. IE mixing the two, the list he signed he signed as Steve Jackson, Steve Jackson Games. Ergo making it a company stance instead of a personal one.

My mistake in that I didn't bring that up, you did say that, and it was a mistake to leave that out in my reply. A classic "some" versus "all" sort of thing, the reason that SOME people gave, or in this case, ONE person: if you look back at RPG Pundit's response to me, that was the reason that he gave.

And if you look through the thread I'm sure you don't have to look hard to see a bias, there is a aim to excuse the right for certain behaviors that would land a red further down on the list, and having a bias is totally fine. We all have them, and you are generating a list for people with similar views to your own.

But to then have someone in the same thread, often the same people who express those biases, go and say something like "People keep trying to make this seem like it has a bias, it doesn't."

Either there is a bias and that's fine, or there is not a bias. But both cannot be true.

But it's hard to make the claim that there's no left vs right bias when one of the main contributors makes statements like this about "the left": (and this isn't me digging up some secret conversation and using it out of context, this was a reply to me on this topic about this list.)

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 08:45:39 AM
Defending Free Speech, or loving your country, or believing in democracy, or wanting rule of law to be respected are not "political" views. They are the norms of our civilization.  The left tries to pretend they are contentious views so that they don't look like the absolute freaks they are when they loudly declare their support for banning (or nowadays even burning) books and blocking (or nowadays criminally illegalizing) speech, subverting democracy, creating a two-tiered system of rule of law, and despising their own countries. All of which ARE inherently political views because they stand against the norm of civilization.


Likewise, saying "Gamers are not toxic" or "RPGs are for everyone who just wants to play" or "RPGs should be about adventuring  not about political indoctrination" are NOT political views, they are expressions of the NORM.

The ABNORMAL ones, and therefore the politicized ones, are the people standing against those things.

True or not, being considered "the left" is obviously considered "BAD" by at least this major contributor.

Anything made by a human is going to have some degree of bias, the nature of this list is subjective. We all have different thresholds of what constitutes shitty behavior, and what sort of behavior is acceptable. As far as i'm concerned right now "the left" is more of a tribe united really only by hatred and authoritarianism. It is antithetical to classical liberal thought, and "left" might be shockingly appropriate for what is being described here. In many cultures the left hand path is a way of describing a path of evil, sometimes its a path of destruction or darkness, it's the root for the word Sinister being Sinistra, and the hand that is supposed to be used to wipe your ass in the middle east.

Anyway it's probably more lack of a better term, most of what used to be considered "the left" has been co-opted by cultists and authoritarian nutjobs. When "the left" starts espousing personal freedom, liberty, and actually building new things instead of always destroying everything then it's easier to reconsider. I realized this years ago, my core principles haven't really changed, but the whole spectrum has shifted.

The "leftists" who are placed in the green list are actually terrible leftists by that definition and probably hold alot of more classical liberal views. But it's all speculation because ultimately they treat others the way they wish to be treated.

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:38:09 AM

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 11:33:11 AM

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:24:13 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 11:13:25 AM

Quote from: KingCheops on September 16, 2021, 11:07:30 AM

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 10:48:46 AM
Varg is unique that he actually burned down a church and killed someone so...he's basically like you except with balls.

The fact that someone would question why Varg would be on the red portion of this list just boggles my mind.

Because it deranges the whole narrative of 'this is a right/left thing'.

I mean, given you almost certainly are gripped by the ahistorical belief that Nazis are left-wing, not really

I mean ya'll look pretty similar and have very similar views

Not sure I can think of a single person on the left who has engaged in Palingenetic ultranationalism.

You want the mirror to this? Three words. Critical Race Theory. So by that token, the entirety of the mainstream left?

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 09:45:40 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on September 16, 2021, 09:36:14 AM
  I would also say, if you live where you do not have the right to own a firearm, you really do not have any rights.  You have some rules the government handed you and you get to play by, and that they can change at a whim.

So cute that you think that guns change that.

  I can tell you this, your government has them, and you do not.   Keep thinking those guns have no bearing on it.

"The right and "center", globally, remains censorious and opposed to individual liberty."

You just talked about intimidation as consequences. What liberty do you claim your support of a capricious mob's online attempts at throwing a pimp hand is protecting ? This is self evidently just gaslight and bullshit on your part.

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:59:30 AM
Who has called you a Nazi again?

Oh, disingenuousness.

Definitionally it does.

Violence is what makes a state a state.

What is cute is you think that you would be allowed to have them if you were any kind of threat to the states monopoly on violence.

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:38:09 AM

Not sure I can think of a single person on the left who has engaged in Palingenetic ultranationalism.

Fascism came from the right of Stalin but it didn't come from the right. Or the center.

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 16, 2021, 12:12:06 PM

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:59:30 AM
Who has called you a Nazi again?

Oh, disingenuousness.

I haven't called anyone here a Nazi.

You can tell when I am doing that, because I say... "You are a Nazi." Or "fuck off Fash".

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 12:13:47 PM
Definitionally it does.

Violence is what makes a state a state.

What is cute is you think that you would be allowed to have them if you were any kind of threat to the states monopoly on violence.

Gangs are states then. Or pissed off drunks. Rebels. Either that or there is no monopoly on violence except in theory. What is cute is how you assume the rigidity of your delusions commands nature.

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 12:17:00 PM

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 16, 2021, 12:12:06 PM

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:59:30 AM
Who has called you a Nazi again?

Oh, disingenuousness.

I haven't called anyone here a Nazi.

You can tell when I am doing that, because I say... "You are a Nazi." Or "fuck off Fash".

I can tell that you are shitty at arguing and understanding and prone to lying.

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 12:06:08 PM
Anything made by a human is going to have some degree of bias, the nature of this list is subjective. We all have different thresholds of what constitutes shitty behavior, and what sort of behavior is acceptable. As far as i'm concerned right now "the left" is more of a tribe united really only by hatred and authoritarianism. It is antithetical to classical

We could have a conversation over drinks, or more likely over chips and dice after a game, and it would be pleasant I imagine. I have plenty of friends with views similar to you, we have debates and it works out fine.

So I wouldn't mind raising my hand and hoping that you now know at least one person "on the left" who isn't "united by hatred and authoritarianism."

That's usually all that I aim for. Just as I hope you understand that I don't feel that I assume anything untoward about "the right."

I feel so compelled to argue with you on details, like ask you "What does Critical Race Theory actually mean?" but ... off topic and not really the point. (though, it's always so interesting how that is such a boogeyman to the right, but that's the point of the FUD factories that feed you more and more things to make you constantly afraid, but there's some fnords there that you start to see after a while.)

These are conversations that would work so much better in a face-to-face setting, where you could see the human on the other side of the table and understand the tone of the conversation.  (like, "Is this being received well?  No.  Well, let's stop that conversation and move to something else.")

So, when you say you have details about Steve Jackson, I'm insanely curious, and that you gotta keep it secret is disappointing. I have respected him for decades, you know?

And honestly, I shouldn't really have brought that line of conversation up, it's your game and you should play it by your rules. I came here to say "Yes" when you mentioned splitting the green list, and I did that, and it's done.

But, just ... "The left" is not some homogenous whole. Crap, one of the more outspoken advocates for LGBTQ and other inclusivity issues in our local area is a libertarian and rather right-leaning on most issues, but he also happens to be a complex human. Cuz, you know, us humans tend to be.

Honestly, I shouldn't really have bothered here in the first place, I am ill-equipped to be here. I am too clueless to catch on some of the subtle barbs, I am too sincere to maneuver with some of the conversational dances being performed, and I feel bad for being disrespectful even when I'm feeling a bit of the heat being thrown at me.

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 16, 2021, 12:16:01 PM

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:38:09 AM

Not sure I can think of a single person on the left who has engaged in Palingenetic ultranationalism.

Fascism came from the right of Stalin but it didn't come from the right. Or the center.

This is Ahistorical.

While there is some basis to the idea that Italian fascism moved to the right over time. And that it is true that, pre-fascism, Benito Mussolini was involved in left-wing politics, there is no basis to the idea that Italian fascism was left-wing.

From the outset fascism:

-was in alliance with traditional right-wing elites working to break up trade unions and kill left-wing organisers
- included right wing traditionalists and far-right futurists.

The Nazis were even more clearly right-wing,, though it did have a small number of people who believed in a left-wing conception of Nazism.

Those people behind that idea were all murdered during the night of long knives.

Hitler, like  Mussolini, came to power thanks to his alliance with right-wing elites.

I suggest you actually read a history of fascism before you make claims about it. A good starting point would be Robert O. Paxton's the Anatomy of Fascism.

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 16, 2021, 12:16:01 PM

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:38:09 AM

Not sure I can think of a single person on the left who has engaged in Palingenetic ultranationalism.

Fascism came from the right of Stalin but it didn't come from the right. Or the center.

Dude, you, and everybody best drop the politics in this forum, take it to Pundit's forum that will get you banned or at least thread banned, and me thinks the disingenuous twats are trying to get someone banned or the thread closed.

This goes for everybody, including the disingenuos twats, politics are only allowed in this forum if they have to do with RPGs.

So much for free speech, hu....