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Author Topic: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies  (Read 620658 times)

Zelen

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #180 on: August 07, 2021, 06:53:22 PM »
I'm not sure what the point of the discussion about Varg is. Is the list to create a list of "RPG Creators I Agree With" or is the point of the list "RPG Creators Who Don't Parrot Ruling Class Propaganda In Their Works"?


Eirikrautha

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #181 on: August 07, 2021, 07:41:24 PM »
I'm not sure what the point of the discussion about Varg is. Is the list to create a list of "RPG Creators I Agree With" or is the point of the list "RPG Creators Who Don't Parrot Ruling Class Propaganda In Their Works"?
My understanding was it was a list of "RPG Creators Who Don't Parrot Propaganda In Their Works".  I don't think it is limited to your definition of "ruling class."  In which case Varg should go up in red.  Next.

Zelen

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #182 on: August 07, 2021, 08:28:12 PM »
I'm not sure what the point of the discussion about Varg is. Is the list to create a list of "RPG Creators I Agree With" or is the point of the list "RPG Creators Who Don't Parrot Ruling Class Propaganda In Their Works"?
My understanding was it was a list of "RPG Creators Who Don't Parrot Propaganda In Their Works".  I don't think it is limited to your definition of "ruling class."  In which case Varg should go up in red.  Next.

Woke is a distinct phenomenon, and it has to be treated differently because it's the prevailing orthodox position. If you are saying something or creating a product that contradicts Woke ideology, you're putting your neck on the line. Creating a non-Woke product can get you hounded by an activist mob, and you're risking that your book won't be carried by major storefronts, won't be accepted by book printers, that your payment processor will decline to process transactions, and worse.

That's a big difference from whether a given product has a particular agenda or ideology behind it. Lots of games have specific perspectives that I don't agree with, but only Woke has any practical impact on my ability to game in the way that I please.

rocksfalleverybodydies

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #183 on: August 07, 2021, 08:39:17 PM »
I'm not sure what the point of the discussion about Varg is. Is the list to create a list of "RPG Creators I Agree With" or is the point of the list "RPG Creators Who Don't Parrot Ruling Class Propaganda In Their Works"?
My understanding was it was a list of "RPG Creators Who Don't Parrot Propaganda In Their Works".  I don't think it is limited to your definition of "ruling class."  In which case Varg should go up in red.  Next.

Woke is a distinct phenomenon, and it has to be treated differently because it's the prevailing orthodox position. If you are saying something or creating a product that contradicts Woke ideology, you're putting your neck on the line. Creating a non-Woke product can get you hounded by an activist mob, and you're risking that your book won't be carried by major storefronts, won't be accepted by book printers, that your payment processor will decline to process transactions, and worse.

That's a big difference from whether a given product has a particular agenda or ideology behind it. Lots of games have specific perspectives that I don't agree with, but only Woke has any practical impact on my ability to game in the way that I please.

Well said.  That really is the heart of the matter for me: it is a reverse bait and switch to give the illusion of accommodating openness and creativity, while it is mandating and stifling other perspectives, and if those do not supplicate and publicly state the supposed errors of their ways, strive to cancel them socially with the attempt to ruin them financially.

Woke is a very autocratic ideology indeed and those that follow it cannot tolerate differing opinions from  theirs in the hobby.  Even those who are neutral or indifferent are pressured to support their ideals: that in my opinion is one of their worst characteristics.

<addendum>
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 08:51:29 PM by rocksfalleverybodydies »

ThatChrisGuy

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #184 on: August 07, 2021, 11:20:56 PM »
Am I nuts or is some asshole actually defending Varg Vikernes?  What the everloving fuck is going on in this thread?
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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #185 on: August 08, 2021, 02:00:39 AM »
Varg made some claim like 20 years ago that he supported Naziism.

He has since completely backed off that and changed his outlook. I haven't seen anything remotely "Nazi" from him, and he has said that MYFAROG is not racist.

Back in the day he wanted to be this heavy metal edge lord --that is what it was like in Europe in he late 80s and early 90s. The metal heads all tried to shock the public through devil worship, swastikas, etc. it was all an act.

but Varg continues to be this boogeyman
Black is beautiful. Black, black, black. Black people are good, innocent, and wonderful. Everything black people think and do is just great. All you non-black people should just get used to the idea of being on your knees and worshipping BLACK KINGS AND BLACK QUEENS!

It is the woke dream to be slaves to the black masters. Welcome to the new, glorious age! ;D

Thankfully, one can get away from this by playing MYFAROG. There, blacks (sorry, "darklings") are properly statted out -- like this:



But according to Merrill, Varg says that it's not racist, so it must be so.

When this issue of Darklings being black people came up, Varg released a video stating that these are fantasy races --they have things like fangs, and are not analogues to human beings

I don't have the game in front of me, but I also recall some group of swarthy nomadic pirate-types. They weren't "evil" in any essential way, just a bit untrustworthy and alien. Perhaps Gypsy-like.

AD&D has black-skinned Drow and Orcs --but they get a pass here? None of these fantasy races are African people, nor have they ever been.

Now if Varg came right out and said his game was some allegory of the struggle of Swedes against the savages of our planet, or made a bunch of cryptic statements that connected Africans to mongrels, etc. that would be a different story altogether.

In short,the designer says his game is inspired by other RPGs released in the previous decades and it is all fantasy. I don't need my games to be sanitized by leftist activists, or submitted to "sensitivity readers" to mke sure I am protected.

MYFAROG isn't even edgy at all. LotFP is way darker and edgier, and games from a while back, like Necroscope, were really disturbing and for mature audiences.

Darkling, Weakling, Foreigner, Native... From a guy that at the very least was a Neo-Nazi... Not sure I'm going to trust him on anything he says.

OK, I actually had to go back a couple editions (the new ones don't use the above species and table) to find this. And on page 5 of MYFAROG 2.4 it says:

"Darklings and Weaklines are the names of the only known races of the swarthy and cruel Arbi species ...they have fang-like teeth"

so like Varg says in his video, these are NOT humans --they are like orcs or goblins

the Foreigners are human traders or merchants from some distant land --they are not described as criminal, animals, whatever. Sure, they don't get the bonuses the elves and God fathered get, but they are like common humans in D&D, aka not heroes.

The Darklings and Weaklings get penalties to some stats because they are not suited to live in the arctic climate where the game takes place

So if you are reading between the lines here and see black people, that is on you bro. I never thought that quite frankly

This is complete bullshit. The kopparmen are obviously other races. The coverage of it in later editions in an attempt to FOOL idiots or give cover to fellow nazis (which are you, Merrill, an idiot or a Nazi?) doesn't change that.

The game itself is based on the MADE-UP PROTO-NAZI "thulean" fantasy of the make-believe Aryan Supercivilization.

Nothing wrong with playing a game based around the Aryan myth though.

Well, to a certain degree, there is.
The Aryan myth is not some ancient myth. It was invented in the second half of the 19th century by people with the express interest in presenting a vile ideology of racial supremacy. The Arianosophists were the direct ancestors of the esoteric elements of Nazism.

The idea that this game is a 'serious historical setting' is nonsense, and the idea that this is a setting based on 'traditional myth and legend' is a blatant lie.

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #186 on: August 08, 2021, 02:01:39 AM »
As far as the Mork Borg OGL anti-racism clause goes, that seems to be a pre-emptive defensive measure to keep Varg Vikernes away.

Shit I dont know how I didn't put two and two together than Varg Vikinges was the guy from Mayhem who murdered someone which is the same guy who wrote MyFarog. Though I hear from some people who have played MyFarog that it's not what it was made out to be. Last I heard he moved on from that life, but it's not like i was following his life story very closely. Unfortunately he's been yeeted from all the major social media and streaming platforms so it is difficult to tell what has actually become of him if he is truly reformed.

What is the consensus here?

He's a literal Nazi. It's part of why even though I spend a considerable amount of time fighting him and his fans, the SJWs always try to include him in a list of people who are the furthest thing from nazis but that they want to smear.

Varg made some claim like 20 years ago that he supported Naziism.

He has since completely backed off that and changed his outlook. I haven't seen anything remotely "Nazi" from him, and he has said that MYFAROG is not racist.

Back in the day he wanted to be this heavy metal edge lord --that is what it was like in Europe in he late 80s and early 90s. The metal heads all tried to shock the public through devil worship, swastikas, etc. it was all an act.

but Varg continues to be this boogeyman


Varg continues to espouse racist ideology loudly and openly you absolute dimbulb. And he didn't "make a claim". He made a series of racist statements, elaborated on them, has written two books of racist propaganda, and continues to tweet stuff like this:







God damn you are dumb.

it's nice you found time to dig through Varg''s Twitter history to find evidence of racism. I am not even on Twitter, and I actually have a life, so ...

I don't need to defend Varg --if you think the game is RaCIst! Then don't play it. I am only telling you what he himself said about his game, that it wasn't.

But on a side note, do you think Jews, who call themselves God's Chosen People, refer to other races and groups as Goyim, black people as "Schwarze", and operate an ethnostate in Israel with nice big walls and camps for people who get out-of-line, are racist?

Banned for anti-semitism.
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Pat
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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #187 on: August 08, 2021, 08:20:58 AM »
Am I nuts or is some asshole actually defending Varg Vikernes?  What the everloving fuck is going on in this thread?
I'm finding it useful. I'm not familiar with Vikernes or Myfarog except from memes, and my knowledge of Nazi mysticism ends with the Indiana Jones movies. But I'm very familiar with how deplorably common it's become to call people Nazis on the internet and how often imaginary dogwhistles are used to call people racists, without any justification whatsoever. So the posters like the Pundit who are pointing out specific passages and drawing a clear connection between them and Nazi mythology, or Tubesock providing caps of specific racist tweets, are providing a very useful service.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 08:22:37 AM by Pat »

Ocule

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #188 on: August 08, 2021, 08:57:52 AM »
Yeah it’s getting a bit off topic with him. Might just not include him on the list. Really I was just trying to make the list as complete as reasonably possible.
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Semaj Khan

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #189 on: August 08, 2021, 11:41:08 AM »
Banned for anti-semitism.

Thank you.

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Ocule

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #190 on: August 08, 2021, 11:51:34 AM »
On the upside I think I managed to get rid of the unknown category for now, I think i covered a lot of the major players but there is always room for expansion. Might put them in some kind of order if I have the time but for now a ctrl + F should suffice.
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oggsmash

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #191 on: August 08, 2021, 12:12:53 PM »
  A question about the Reaper miniatures thing (firing someone for criticizing antifa), did they fire the person for making politically tinged posts, or was it specifically for "taking the wrong side?" 

  I could COMPLETELY understand people getting fired for pulling politics into business, of any flavor.  I do not so much understand only firing people for "wrong politics".

Eirikrautha

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #192 on: August 08, 2021, 01:03:32 PM »
But on a side note, do you think Jews, who call themselves God's Chosen People, refer to other races and groups as Goyim, black people as "Schwarze", and operate an ethnostate in Israel with nice big walls and camps for people who get out-of-line, are racist?

Banned for anti-semitism.

It's almost amusing how, once you let them talk for a while, the anti-semites can't help but out themselves.  It's like they were vegan, or into Crossfit...

Jason Coplen

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #193 on: August 08, 2021, 01:36:27 PM »
Thanks for the ban against that creep. I was tired of reading pages and pages of his tripe. What's next, someone will come in and waste our time going on and on about how Sauron was the good guy, admittedly that would be a funner read.
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SonTodoGato
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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #194 on: August 08, 2021, 01:39:40 PM »
But on a side note, do you think Jews, who call themselves God's Chosen People, refer to other races and groups as Goyim, black people as "Schwarze", and operate an ethnostate in Israel with nice big walls and camps for people who get out-of-line, are racist?

Banned for anti-semitism.

It's almost amusing how, once you let them talk for a while, the anti-semites can't help but out themselves.  It's like they were vegan, or into Crossfit...

So much for the anti-woke crowd. Expressing a negative or critical view of Israel or Jews is totally nazi and has to be banned. Maybe it was off-topic, but What is the difference between this and the people who ban others for posting statistics or scientific facts on account of them being "racist"? This literally banning out of political correctness; the guy didn't advocate for genocide, ethnic cleansing or discrimination.
   
Inb4 "nazi fascist antisemitic bigot!!!!"

Why can't we just have a society in which people speak their minds and we let everyone decide for themselves and sort themselves out instead of having a group of chosen few moderators who totally know what's right for us and know what opinions have to be purged? I know it's a private forum, but you get the point.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 01:42:22 PM by SonTodoGato »