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Author Topic: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies  (Read 620638 times)

RPGPundit

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3450 on: October 29, 2022, 04:52:16 PM »
Jhkim: The most relevant of the 3 in game is “sex.” Do you have broad hips or broad shoulders? 1920’s NPCs are going to make snap judgments based on a first glance. Yes, not all women have broad hips but most everyone in the 20s is going to instantly know whether you’re a man or a woman. Pronouns mean nothing unless there’s a conversation and, of course, standard pronouns would be the norm in the 20s.

There could be several reasons to use different pronouns in game. A woman disguised as a man for instance. But that doesn't mean it needs to on the character sheet, while omitting the much more commonly used trait of the character’s obvious biological sex.

Even in the 1920s, intersexual people existed. About 1% of people have ambiguous genitalia. Looking at the forum stats:

Code: [Select]
1216302 Posts in 41506 Topics by 9427 Members.
There are approximately 94 or 95 people of ambiguous sex at birth who have posted recently.

That’s a much higher proportion than normally given. I don’t doubt that someone is saying this, but I think they are messing a bit with definitions.

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3451 on: October 29, 2022, 04:52:30 PM »
Even in the 1920s, intersexual people existed. About 1% of people have ambiguous genitalia. Looking at the forum stats:

Code: [Select]
1216302 Posts in 41506 Topics by 9427 Members.
There are approximately 94 or 95 people of ambiguous sex at birth who have posted recently.
There are a lot of people here who are over two thousand years old too. 
Maybe this site is popular with elves.

Or perhaps, like myself, we didn't bother to fill out our sex or birth date.

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Continental

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3452 on: November 12, 2022, 09:05:21 AM »
Need Games / Fabula Ultima

Anyone know much about these guys? They’re an Italian company run by Emanuele Galletto and Nicola DeGobbis (both guys, Italians often have female-sounding names). Their best known game is ‘Fabula Ultima’ (‘Last Fable’) which is based on traditional JRPG videogames, especially Final Fantasy.

Having waited decades for a decent tabletop version of FF, I was very much looking forward to this one. The game seems fine and I haven’t seen any sign of anti-consumer behaviour from them yet.

My only red flag was how their emblem is ‘anti-fascist game designer’. Now, most people on the right hate Nazis (and being proudly and openly fascist will get you on the red list here), but we all know how many ‘anti-fascists’ are as bad as the people they purport to hate.

Having looked around at their output, I can’t see anything that seems troubling. The book itself doesn’t have any real-world identity politics, beyond the usual ‘lines and veils’ stuff about including content at your table. There’s a slight leaning towards the PCs being rebels or fighting an evil empire, but that’s a very common JRPG trope, and it’s usually presented like the Alliance in Star Wars, overthrowing the bad guys to put the rightful Queen back on the throne. JRPGs as a whole tend to engage with traditional or timeless themes like ‘how much should we trust organised religion?’ or ‘what makes someone human’? There doesn’t seem to be any openly ‘progressive’ elements, beyond JRPG characters generally being wacky, like robots, sentient animals or talking weapons.

Honestly they seem perfectly fine, but I guess the last few years have made me paranoid. Italy obviously had an infamous fascist government in WW2, so maybe modern Italians feel compelled to mention they are ‘anti-fascist’ or something, maybe there’s a cultural reason to it?

Anyone know anything about them?

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3453 on: November 12, 2022, 09:30:15 AM »
I know them, they are very famous here in Italy, the anti-fascist label is very much a cultural thing and veered towards actual fascists (who never really went away), there are a bunch of left leaning politicians that tried to take the American Dem approach to try and label everyone as fascist but they got their assess soundly beaten at the last election so don't worry about that, identity politics are not a thing in Italy and we don't use weird pronouns.

Regarding the game itself, it follows the tropes of jrpgs so if you are into that you will love them, it even won a rpg of the year prize here recently, me personally I'm not into jrpgs but from what I know the system is very well done.

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3454 on: November 12, 2022, 09:44:05 AM »
Having looked around at their output, I can’t see anything that seems troubling. The book itself doesn’t have any real-world identity politics, beyond the usual ‘lines and veils’ stuff about including content at your table.
Maybe this is a nitpick but I don’t think “lines and veils” and other meta-rules are “usual”. Very few games that I own even mention this idea at all and none - to my recollection - use this terminology. This is nanny-state crap from people who know nothing about your table and are motivated by either the desire to moralize or the fear of having their game getting canceled. Moralizing meta-rules are yellow for me.
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Continental

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3455 on: November 12, 2022, 11:39:59 AM »
Yes, I find it annoying too, because it infantilizes both games and role-players. All and any such issues should be resolved by just talking and discussing potential problems ahead of time and dealing with it like adults.

That said, it's become almost obligatory. Designers might be afraid of being cancelled or whatever if they don't include it.  To be fair to these guys, their section is very short, doesn't mention X-Cards or try to summon John Hastor (or whatever he's called) by saying his name aloud.

JRPGs do deal with relatively dark issues sometimes, coupled with a fairly young audience, so I read it as a kind of 'parental guidance' thing if you're including these elements of alienation and anguish in your kid's games.   

Compare this to Ulisses Spiele who had a separate booklet about this showing you how to remove every single element of their games out of their games if it might upset someone. 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2022, 11:50:59 AM by Continental »

Continental

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3456 on: November 12, 2022, 11:44:10 AM »
I know them, they are very famous here in Italy, the anti-fascist label is very much a cultural thing and veered towards actual fascists (who never really went away), there are a bunch of left leaning politicians that tried to take the American Dem approach to try and label everyone as fascist but they got their assess soundly beaten at the last election so don't worry about that, identity politics are not a thing in Italy and we don't use weird pronouns.
Regarding the game itself, it follows the tropes of jrpgs so if you are into that you will love them, it even won a rpg of the year prize here recently, me personally I'm not into jrpgs but from what I know the system is very well done.

Ah, that's what I thought, thanks for replying. I figured it might be a cultural context considering what I've heard of the 'Ultras' who still cause problems in Italy.   

Need Games seem like decent folks, and if I'm honest, as long as their political views don't make it into the game, I don't really care about them.

Thanks for confirming.
 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2022, 11:56:51 AM by Continental »

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3457 on: November 20, 2022, 03:28:29 PM »
Quote
This is nanny-state crap from people who know nothing about your table and are motivated by either the desire to moralize or the fear of having their game getting canceled. Moralizing meta-rules are yellow for me.

General gist was political agenda and anti-client actions.
Promoting certain savoir-vivre at table - is natural and expected part of advice. Gygax did it a lot.
You just prefer his lassez-faire attitude more I guess - but on itself unless those advices include ban racist/fascist/Episcopalian/Asian players - they do not fall under this gist.
Just because they remind you of nanny-state does not matter.
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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3458 on: November 20, 2022, 03:37:25 PM »
Need Games / Fabula Ultima

I would argue yellow or red, the anti-fascist designer thing was something that came about due to the list and was immediately hopped on by a lot of designers like Diogo. Likewise, the game itself has a whole pronoun section on the official character sheet if that tells you anything. If you want a jrpg style game stick to Ryuutama imo
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Abbo1993

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3459 on: November 20, 2022, 05:50:03 PM »
They must have done it for the English version, the Italian one has no pronouns on it from what I know.

Continental

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3460 on: November 20, 2022, 05:56:27 PM »
I personally wouldn't use pronouns unless the character was an 'it' that wasn't male or female (an amoeba or something) but I don't know if that's enough to put a game on yellow or red alert.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 06:47:23 PM by Continental »

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3461 on: November 20, 2022, 06:34:33 PM »
Ultima Fabula by Emanuele Gellato (Emanual Icecream lol)
This guy looks like an enormous tool. So looking at a few aspects here, his avatar says anti-fascist game designer. A saying that should be something good but we know what these assclowns think being anti fascist is so im gonna go ahead and assume this is more of an antifa affiliation.

Next up is Press Start aka the quickstart for Ultima Fabula. Every single pregen has a "Pronouns" and the first pregen is "they/them" so already not even a couple pages into a sampler and they're already using neopronouns. They have story points, and so far my personal favorite is that it impossible for a player character to die without the players permission to do so. Common wokist bullshit.

Quote
If a Player Character falls to 0 Hit Points, they may Surrender or Sacrifice themselves

And for the official discord here are their baseline rules

Quote
RoosterEma (any pron.) (GMT+2) — 05/30/2020
Welcome to the Rooster Games Discord server! :feather~1:

There aren't many rules to follow, I promise:

1) No discriminatory jokes. Your fun must not come at the expense of others - be they users, folks outside the discord, etc. Don't bully others. Even if you know someone in real life and know they're ok with you teasing them or insulting them, don't do it here, because it pollutes the entire server. You are free to do that somewhere else, NOT here.

2) No sexism, racism, ageism, ableism etc.; no usage of derogatory or discriminatory words (n-word, for instance). Everyone is welcome in this Discord, as long as they respect others (including their uniqueness, emotions, and vulnerabilities). If someone asks you to drop a topic, you are expected to do that.

3) No trolling, baiting, or flame-inducing behaviors. If someone asks you to be less aggressive, start by apologising and proceed to regulate yourself.

4) Keep NSFW media to a minimum. There are under-18 users in this Discord.

5) Please avoid rude language whenever possible. It's a slippery slope and easily leads to flames.

6) No discussion/sharing of NFTs, crypto, and AI-created artwork. The AI ban may be lifted in the future if  developers prove their AIs don't steal art from non-public domain sources, and if they strictly enforce Creative Commons use.

7) As the owner of the server, I have final say on what constitutes a violation of the rules. If I tell you to drop a subject, apologise, or avoid a certain topic, you are expected to do that. If you disagree, you are free to PM me about it, but in the meantime you must comply.

One extra thing that's not a rule but a personal wish: I greatly appreciate any of you who list your choice of pronouns as part of your nickname. This helps normalize pronoun use and make conversations smoother.

That's basically it! ❤️

Thank you for your cooperation, and I hope you have a great time in the server!!!

Emanuele


This goes beyond normal server rules and i'm cringing just reading it. JRPGs, anime/manga in general has been a sort of anti-woke bastion, this basically takes all that and turns it into cringe. If youre looking for a jrpg themed game why not Sword World 2.0 which is the ttrpg that most of the jrpg games and anime are actually based on. Is it even a jrpg without big tittie anime waifus?

Anway might add them to red just for it being something i can see people asking about. I need to go wash this cringe off me now
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PonchoGoblin

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3462 on: November 20, 2022, 07:00:36 PM »
Quote
RoosterEma (any pron.) (GMT+2) — 05/30/2020

7) As the owner of the server, I have final say on what constitutes a violation of the rules. If I tell you to drop a subject, apologise, or avoid a certain topic, you are expected to do that. If you disagree, you are free to PM me about it, but in the meantime you must comply.

One extra thing that's not a rule but a personal wish: I greatly appreciate any of you who list your choice of pronouns as part of your nickname. This helps normalize pronoun use and make conversations smoother.

That's basically it! ❤️

Thank you for your cooperation, and I hope you have a great time in the server!!!

Emanuele


This goes beyond normal server rules and i'm cringing just reading it. JRPGs, anime/manga in general has been a sort of anti-woke bastion, this basically takes all that and turns it into cringe. If youre looking for a jrpg themed game why not Sword World 2.0 which is the ttrpg that most of the jrpg games and anime are actually based on. Is it even a jrpg without big tittie anime waifus?

Anway might add them to red just for it being something i can see people asking about. I need to go wash this cringe off me now

Another way to read that rule: If you piss me off you need to grovel before me for forgiveness.
Also pronouns in username in both discord and twitter, with a they/them, definitely woke.

I think all 3 core books of Sword World 2.0 have been translated at this point, so I'd use that too. Was just mentioning Ryuutama because Fabula Ultima uses Ryuutama as its base (whether they have permission from Ryuutama's authors is another question, considering that it isn't OGL)
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Armchair Gamer

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3463 on: November 20, 2022, 07:18:50 PM »
I think all 3 core books of Sword World 2.0 have been translated at this point, so I'd use that too. Was just mentioning Ryuutama because Fabula Ultima uses Ryuutama as its base (whether they have permission from Ryuutama's authors is another question, considering that it isn't OGL)

   I believe they've had permission, although that's only based on what's been said online. I was intrigued by Fabula Ultima, but my tastes run more to Dragon Quest than later-style JRPGs, and I've already got Ryuutama. :)

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #3464 on: November 20, 2022, 07:22:42 PM »
They have story points, and so far my personal favorite is that it impossible for a player character to die without the players permission to do so. Common wokist bullshit.

Quote
If a Player Character falls to 0 Hit Points, they may Surrender or Sacrifice themselves


  That might be the source material--there's often a distinction in JRPGs between "being taken to 0 hp" and "being actually, permanently killed," with the latter being much more rare and narratively driven.