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Author Topic: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies  (Read 98182 times)

thedarkeye

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1665 on: September 22, 2021, 08:13:28 PM »
I think something people might mischaracterize about the list is that...the red list are people who are being politically or socially polarizing on either side of the isle.correct?

as in,  I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all white hetero christian fascists' as much as I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all POC lesbian atheist communists'.

Ocule

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1666 on: September 22, 2021, 08:40:46 PM »
I think something people might mischaracterize about the list is that...the red list are people who are being politically or socially polarizing on either side of the isle.correct?

as in,  I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all white hetero christian fascists' as much as I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all POC lesbian atheist communists'.

So far the only people i've actually seen mischaracterize the list do so in such an outlandish way that it's really not worth giving them much thought. They immediately setup such a strawman that I don't really think any amount of language or descriptions are going to change their minds. But yes you are mostly correct but there are other factors that went in.

Polarizing for putting is putting it mildly for what constitutes as red. It mostly covers games that might not advertise themselves as being strongly political, but also names creators and publishers that go after people for not sharing their views. If you look at the google doc version of the list all of the red entries cite at least one reason why they made that list and if it's not something that is common knowledge or really easy to find then a link is provided as to why. In making this list i've seen everything from harassment of individuals to full on physical attacks on people to just having their game read like a propaganda book. Someone put it pretty well, some of these guys are modern day sophists.
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arctic_fox

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1667 on: September 23, 2021, 10:17:42 AM »
Been looking through Riot Mind's catalog of products and i must say... Its just too good to be real, Trudvang looks amazing, no forced diversity breaking the coherence and immersion of the norse setting, outstanding art (by Paul Bonner) and pretty solid system, the same can be said about their other titles (LexOccultum and Ruin Masters) , so im sold.

Great forum btw, a beacon of light in a dark age of the entertainiment industry and amazing initiative to make this list, i feel like we need this in others forms of media too.

Im not a native english speaker so pardon my grammar.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 03:13:44 PM by arctic_fox »

rytrasmi

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1668 on: September 23, 2021, 11:39:45 AM »
Been looking through Riot Mind's catalog of products and i must say... Its just too good to be real, Trudvang looks amazing, no forced diversity breaking the coherence and immersion of the norse setting, outstanding art (by Paul Bonner) and pretty solid system, the same can be said about their other titles (LexOccultum and Ruin Masters) , so im sold.

Great forum btw, a beacon of light in a dark age of the entertainiment industry and amazing initiative to make this list, i feel like we need this in others forms of media too.

Im not a english native speaker so pardon my grammar.

Holy hell, this stuff looks amazing. I'm going to have to spend some money now.

tenbones

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1669 on: September 23, 2021, 11:43:26 AM »
Been looking through Riot Mind's catalog of products and i must say... Its just too good to be real, Trudvang looks amazing, no forced diversity breaking the coherence and immersion of the norse setting, outstanding art (by Paul Bonner) and pretty solid system, the same can be said about their other titles (LexOccultum and Ruin Masters) , so im sold.

Great forum btw, a beacon of light in a dark age of the entertainiment industry and amazing initiative to make this list, i feel like we need this in others forms of media too.

Im not a english native speaker so pardon my grammar.

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horsesoldier

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1670 on: September 23, 2021, 01:32:46 PM »
I think something people might mischaracterize about the list is that...the red list are people who are being politically or socially polarizing on either side of the isle.correct?

as in,  I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all white hetero christian fascists' as much as I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all POC lesbian atheist communists'.

You're missing the plot on the color coding. It isn't you're playing X or you're playing Y. It's "You're playing X and that's bad because" and "You're playing Y and that's good because" along with sensitivity warnings, preachy sidebars or obnoxious public statements by the company/principals.

Thorn Drumheller

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1671 on: September 23, 2021, 10:36:51 PM »
I'd like to nominate Fandom Tabletop for the red list. They're partnered with WotC for dndbeyond (their videos on youtube are full of 'diversity'). They are producing an rpg of the Netflix Dragon Prince series which is pretty woke. Cam Banks is a designer who was one of the mockers when the list hit twitter (he's been pretty vocal in the past about being woke).
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Gagarth

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1672 on: September 24, 2021, 02:30:25 PM »
Duplicated
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 02:31:58 PM by Gagarth »
'Don't join us. Work hard, get good degrees, join the Establishment and serve our cause from within.' Harry Pollitt - Communist Party GB

 “Don’t worry about the election, Trump’s not gonna win. I made f*cking sure of that!” Eric Coomer -  Dominion Voting Systems Officer of Strategy and Security

Gagarth

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1673 on: September 24, 2021, 02:31:21 PM »
Stumbled onto The Yellow King RPG and saw that Pelgrane needed more list citations.
The first book in the collection, Paris, has:

Some more from Pelgrane.
Quote
TimeWatch isn’t a simulation; racism and sexism may be rampant throughout history, but they’re no fun whatsoever in a roleplaying game unless that’s a historical issue you’re specifically looking to address.
'Don't join us. Work hard, get good degrees, join the Establishment and serve our cause from within.' Harry Pollitt - Communist Party GB

 “Don’t worry about the election, Trump’s not gonna win. I made f*cking sure of that!” Eric Coomer -  Dominion Voting Systems Officer of Strategy and Security

Ghostmaker

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1674 on: September 24, 2021, 06:10:31 PM »
Stumbled onto The Yellow King RPG and saw that Pelgrane needed more list citations.
The first book in the collection, Paris, has:

Some more from Pelgrane.
Quote
TimeWatch isn’t a simulation; racism and sexism may be rampant throughout history, but they’re no fun whatsoever in a roleplaying game unless that’s a historical issue you’re specifically looking to address.
Playing devil's advocate here, I'm a little mixed on this. It's like how the Society for Creative Anachronism doesn't try to replicate ALL the aspects of medieval life. I don't think it's entirely necessary to replicate the worst parts of an era in a game that's supposed to be fun (remember, we're doing this for FUN, right?).

Further research is needed, I think.

shroomster

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1675 on: September 25, 2021, 01:48:44 AM »
Stumbled onto The Yellow King RPG and saw that Pelgrane needed more list citations.
The first book in the collection, Paris, has:

Some more from Pelgrane.
Quote
TimeWatch isn’t a simulation; racism and sexism may be rampant throughout history, but they’re no fun whatsoever in a roleplaying game unless that’s a historical issue you’re specifically looking to address.
Playing devil's advocate here, I'm a little mixed on this. It's like how the Society for Creative Anachronism doesn't try to replicate ALL the aspects of medieval life. I don't think it's entirely necessary to replicate the worst parts of an era in a game that's supposed to be fun (remember, we're doing this for FUN, right?).

Further research is needed, I think.

Point 1: massive volumes of injustices claimed by sjw writers, yet very little if any evidence is given
Point 2: proving individual cases of abuse by todays standards and not by standards and morals prevalent at the time of their occurrence
Point 3: assuming points 1 and 2 are resolved, at which point is an issue deemed a societal/"systemic"/*insert big adjective* one?

Making sweeping moral judgements about the past using today's standards assumes that these things existed in the volumes claimed by sjw's without substantial empirical evidence (point 1, and references of sjw academia where they decide that something is problematic a priori then cherry pick the data, doesn't count). Also even if presented, this evidence would only indicate that an individual or a collection of individuals has received verbal or physical abuse and judged by the standards applied by the one examining the case in the current period and thus unable to have proper context of the event, let alone figure out the true motivations of the abuser (point 2, how to we know the abuse was motivated by what sjw's claim it was).

Taking the example of alleged sexism in the 1920's, have some women experienced what a section of today's women would consider sexism? Lets assume yes, and that we have obtained actual evidence of it (which is more that most sjw's give us already). Then at what point are we today or in any other time period for that matter can say with any degree of certainty that sexism was rampant in the 1920's or in any other time period? How could it be measured to a degree of being rampant and by what metric? (point 3) Also would every person who did not experience sexism in the 1920's counter every person who did experience it? The mechanics are so obscure that I have to resort to filing it under the "sjw hyperbole" category.

So to say "hey guys you don't haaaave to play 1920's like the sexist, racist shit-show that it was" for me is like saying "hey, you don't haaave to think of horrible pink elephants" but it already establishes that pink elephants exists and that they are horrible and I'm not letting them move the ball down the field like that.

mudbanks

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1676 on: September 25, 2021, 10:23:52 PM »
In a nutshell, I don't need a company to tell me how to behave. I don't need a company to tell me what to think. I don't need a company to tell me what
to feel. I don't need some bullshit company to tell me how to treat people or how to play a game.  I had wonderful parents that
taught me those things.  I also grew up with diverse friendships from a very young age. This extended all the way through adulthood, values
that transcended continents. I stress this occurred before "they" decided to try to "teach" me how I was supposed to approach life.
I was actually disappointed that WOTC managed to alter my perspective on TTRPG. These people are ass hats.

Hear! Hear! I'm not from the States, but if I were, I would be considered a minority there. And yet, I absolutely despise when people of my skin colour are shoehorned into settings that don't align, or am told what is correct think when I don't find the indicated presumptions offensive. It's annoying to the point that I feel I'd go crazy with paranoia if I were to follow these "guidelines".

thedarkeye

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1677 on: September 26, 2021, 05:16:42 AM »
I think something people might mischaracterize about the list is that...the red list are people who are being politically or socially polarizing on either side of the isle.correct?

as in,  I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all white hetero christian fascists' as much as I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all POC lesbian atheist communists'.

But yes you are mostly correct but there are other factors that went in.

Polarizing for putting is putting it mildly for what constitutes as red. It mostly covers games that might not advertise themselves as being strongly political, but also names creators and publishers that go after people for not sharing their views.

agreed. thats where i draw the line too.

thedarkeye

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1678 on: September 26, 2021, 05:27:12 AM »
I think something people might mischaracterize about the list is that...the red list are people who are being politically or socially polarizing on either side of the isle.correct?

as in,  I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all white hetero christian fascists' as much as I wouldn't play a game that stated 'you are all POC lesbian atheist communists'.

You're missing the plot on the color coding. It isn't you're playing X or you're playing Y. It's "You're playing X and that's bad because" and "You're playing Y and that's good because" along with sensitivity warnings, preachy sidebars or obnoxious public statements by the company/principals.

I honestly don't have a problem with sensitivity warnings as long as the content remains the same. And I don't have a problem with sidebars about game content. A lot of vintage RPGs have/had very similar things in the beginning of the book before the wokism took over. What I don't like seeing is the 'over-correction' of most games these days.

Look at a book like Vaesen that takes place in 19th century scandinavia. There is a sidebar about gender roles.but basically sums up like 'hey gender roles in real 19th cen. scandinavia were like this but its up to you and your gaming group to determine if you want to play like that or not.

This style of sidebar I don't have a problem with as it leaves it up to the group to determine, as it should be.

Tubesock Army

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Re: [List] TTRPG Guide to Woke Companies
« Reply #1679 on: September 26, 2021, 03:54:44 PM »
Calling Alexander Macris apolitical seems a stretch. He wrote at least two articles supporting Trump's demonstrably baseless allegations of Fraud and discussing ways that the former President could have seized power despite having lost the election.

Correction: He's written way more than two articles about it, apparently.