Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 09:54:24 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on September 16, 2021, 09:38:13 AM
  Anyway, back to the list, are there some items you feel need amending on the list?  A few you would like to add or subtract?

I mean, one of those things is not like the others.

Varg being in RED is laughable. He is diametrically opposed to EVERY other publisher or creator in that section.

Politically he aligns vastly more strongly with people like pundit and grim. So when we see him on the list, we laugh at you harder AND say yeah, they messed up where they put him.

You would actually be better off not having him on the list, because it does a better job of distancing him from you.

But please ignore this advice, cause the lulz provided by you including him are fucking perfection.

If by diametrically opposed you mean two sides of the same coin then yeah. Otherwise how does it feel looking in a mirror? Or maybe it hasn't really dawned on you that you really aren't the target audience for this tool. Varg is unique that he actually burned down a church and killed someone so...he's basically like you except with balls.

Your past few arguments despite being off topic are dishonest misrepresentations aka strawmen. A good way to tell if this site stands up for free speech, you are still here arguing with everyone and haven't been banned. If you were to go to say...the big purple and post anything like what's being discussed here you'd be banned so fast.... hell just tell them youre a member of the rpg site. That should be enough. Why don't you quit being a prick and engage in an honest discussion or debate without misrepresenting arguments or counterpoints to you. Seriously. Like I don't even need to go back that many posts to see youre just trolling at this point.

Why isn't Zak S. in the red ? He openly supports the most liberal causes. He encourages his followers to harass people he has issue with. I suspect he isn't on the red for the same reason Tenkar isn't: both are still in a position to be of benefit to certain posters on this board. Zak is a notable figure with a body of well-regarded work, and Tenkar has recently promoted Venger's stuff.

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 10:48:46 AM
Varg is unique that he actually burned down a church and killed someone so...he's basically like you except with balls.

The fact that someone would question why Varg would be on the red portion of this list just boggles my mind.

Quote from: KingCheops on September 16, 2021, 11:07:30 AM

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 10:48:46 AM
Varg is unique that he actually burned down a church and killed someone so...he's basically like you except with balls.

The fact that someone would question why Varg would be on the red portion of this list just boggles my mind.

Because it deranges the whole narrative of 'this is a right/left thing'.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 16, 2021, 11:04:32 AM
Why isn't Zak S. in the red ? He openly supports the most liberal causes. He encourages his followers to harass people he has issue with. I suspect he isn't on the red for the same reason Tenkar isn't: both are still in a position to be of benefit to certain posters on this board. Zak is a notable figure with a body of well-regarded work, and Tenkar has recently promoted Venger's stuff.

Can you provide links or screenshots for Zak S. It would be better if they are from him rather than a hit piece

You need to be told not to buy varg's stuff?

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 11:13:25 AM
Because it deranges the whole narrative of 'this is a right/left thing'.

Steve Jackson contributed to a left politician, is on the yellow explicitly for that reason

Justin LaNasa ran as a right politician, is on the green.

When asked about the parallel, the explanation given is that the left works against free speech and tries to deplatform people.

Is this at least partially a left/right thing given that there was EXPLICIT reasoning for a position stated based on exactly that?

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 11:13:25 AM

Quote from: KingCheops on September 16, 2021, 11:07:30 AM

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 10:48:46 AM
Varg is unique that he actually burned down a church and killed someone so...he's basically like you except with balls.

The fact that someone would question why Varg would be on the red portion of this list just boggles my mind.

Because it deranges the whole narrative of 'this is a right/left thing'.

I mean, given you almost certainly are gripped by the ahistorical belief that Nazis are left-wing, not really

Quote from: hoshisabi on September 16, 2021, 11:18:17 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 11:13:25 AM
Because it deranges the whole narrative of 'this is a right/left thing'.

Steve Jackson contributed to a left politician, is on the yellow

Justin LaNasa ran as a right politician, is on the green.

The explanation given is that the left works against free speech and tries to deplatform people.

Is this at least partially a left/right thing given that there was EXPLICIT reasoning for a position stated based on exactly that?

Thats not why steve jackson is yellow, the reason is mentioned earlier in the thread. LaNasa hasn't really done anything to merit any other category, who cares that he ran as a politician. The reason listed was just passable as to why yellow, because I had wanted to categorize them as green. Though it's a bit souring when a company like steve jackson games takes a political stance. IE mixing the two, the list he signed he signed as Steve Jackson, Steve Jackson Games. Ergo making it a company stance instead of a personal one.

However the real reason as to what solidified their place in yellow had more to do with an anonymous tip of behaviors employees were engaged in. I'm fairly certain that the personal views of Schwalb Entertainment and Necrotic Gnome are left leaning and they are green. Pinnacle Entertainment im fairly sure Shane Hensley is a Libertarian. This wasn't really a factor in their placement and they seem to treat people the way they wish to be treated.

I'd say people on red are being treated as they've treated others but this thing here is in no way close to the shittyness they've treated other people with.

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:24:13 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 11:13:25 AM

Quote from: KingCheops on September 16, 2021, 11:07:30 AM

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 10:48:46 AM
Varg is unique that he actually burned down a church and killed someone so...he's basically like you except with balls.

The fact that someone would question why Varg would be on the red portion of this list just boggles my mind.

Because it deranges the whole narrative of 'this is a right/left thing'.

I mean, given you almost certainly are gripped by the ahistorical belief that Nazis are left-wing, not really

I mean ya'll look pretty similar and have very similar views

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 11:33:11 AM

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:24:13 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 11:13:25 AM

Quote from: KingCheops on September 16, 2021, 11:07:30 AM

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 10:48:46 AM
Varg is unique that he actually burned down a church and killed someone so...he's basically like you except with balls.

The fact that someone would question why Varg would be on the red portion of this list just boggles my mind.

Because it deranges the whole narrative of 'this is a right/left thing'.

I mean, given you almost certainly are gripped by the ahistorical belief that Nazis are left-wing, not really

I mean ya'll look pretty similar and have very similar views

The leftist proudly proclaims their support of free speech as they demand people be deplatformed, prevented from using payment processors, and shunned from any public venue under threat of legal action.

Before I start: I don't expect a reply, I just want to make sure that you, Ocule, saw that I was acknowledging that you were right. The rest, feel free to ignore and shake your head or reply to as you will.

I had originally only come here to suggest that you go through with your idea of a separate category for the anti-woke, and I've done that.

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 11:31:26 AM
Thats not why steve jackson is yellow, the reason is mentioned earlier in the thread. LaNasa hasn't really done anything to merit any other category, who cares that he ran as a politician. The reason listed was just passable as to why yellow, because I had wanted to categorize them as green. Though it's a bit souring when a company like steve jackson games takes a political stance. IE mixing the two, the list he signed he signed as Steve Jackson, Steve Jackson Games. Ergo making it a company stance instead of a personal one.

My mistake in that I didn't bring that up, you did say that, and it was a mistake to leave that out in my reply. A classic "some" versus "all" sort of thing, the reason that SOME people gave, or in this case, ONE person: if you look back at RPG Pundit's response to me, that was the reason that he gave.

And if you look through the thread I'm sure you don't have to look hard to see a bias, there is a aim to excuse the right for certain behaviors that would land a red further down on the list, and having a bias is totally fine. We all have them, and you are generating a list for people with similar views to your own.

But to then have someone in the same thread, often the same people who express those biases, go and say something like "People keep trying to make this seem like it has a bias, it doesn't."

Either there is a bias and that's fine, or there is not a bias. But both cannot be true.

But it's hard to make the claim that there's no left vs right bias when one of the main contributors makes statements like this about "the left": (and this isn't me digging up some secret conversation and using it out of context, this was a reply to me on this topic about this list.)

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 15, 2021, 08:45:39 AM
Defending Free Speech, or loving your country, or believing in democracy, or wanting rule of law to be respected are not "political" views. They are the norms of our civilization.  The left tries to pretend they are contentious views so that they don't look like the absolute freaks they are when they loudly declare their support for banning (or nowadays even burning) books and blocking (or nowadays criminally illegalizing) speech, subverting democracy, creating a two-tiered system of rule of law, and despising their own countries. All of which ARE inherently political views because they stand against the norm of civilization.


Likewise, saying "Gamers are not toxic" or "RPGs are for everyone who just wants to play" or "RPGs should be about adventuring  not about political indoctrination" are NOT political views, they are expressions of the NORM.

The ABNORMAL ones, and therefore the politicized ones, are the people standing against those things.

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 11:33:11 AM

Quote from: Eris_Shrugged on September 16, 2021, 11:24:13 AM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 16, 2021, 11:13:25 AM

Quote from: KingCheops on September 16, 2021, 11:07:30 AM

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 10:48:46 AM
Varg is unique that he actually burned down a church and killed someone so...he's basically like you except with balls.

The fact that someone would question why Varg would be on the red portion of this list just boggles my mind.

Because it deranges the whole narrative of 'this is a right/left thing'.

I mean, given you almost certainly are gripped by the ahistorical belief that Nazis are left-wing, not really

I mean ya'll look pretty similar and have very similar views

Not sure I can think of a single person on the left who has engaged in Palingenetic ultranationalism.

Quote from: Ocule on September 16, 2021, 11:14:24 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on September 16, 2021, 11:04:32 AM
Why isn't Zak S. in the red ? He openly supports the most liberal causes. He encourages his followers to harass people he has issue with. I suspect he isn't on the red for the same reason Tenkar isn't: both are still in a position to be of benefit to certain posters on this board. Zak is a notable figure with a body of well-regarded work, and Tenkar has recently promoted Venger's stuff.

Can you provide links or screenshots for Zak S. It would be better if they are from him rather than a hit piece

You'd do well in ignoring the obvious concern trolls, what they want is either a gotcha or to make you put someone in a category they deem correct because reasons.

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