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Author Topic: Lion & Dragon: Seeking Advice For A First-Timer  (Read 1750 times)

Doc Sammy

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Lion & Dragon: Seeking Advice For A First-Timer
« on: December 01, 2018, 07:12:56 pm »
So, after several months of putting it off, I have finally decided to get a hard copy of Lion & Dragon from Amazon as an early Saturnalia gift to myself and I am making the order tonight as soon as my Mom gets back home since it's her Amazon account (I already gave her the cash up front to reimburse her as I don't have a credit card of my own) and I am really excited for this, as are some of the people I game with, such as my younger brothers and my uncle.

However, I'm wondering what I should do as a GM to keep it both interesting and also remain Medieval Authentic?

Also, I'm wanting to know if the game is specific to one particular nation or region of the European Middle Ages, or if it can be useful for any Medieval European campaign? I know Dark Albion is specific to England at the time of the War of the Roses, but I don't know the full details behind Lion & Dragon.

Next, I'm wondering what supplements (if any) would any of you recommend for L&D down the line?

Finally, I'd like to ask Pundit himself what he thinks of a "sequel" to Lion & Dragon/Dark Albion that covers the 16th and early 17th Century? I would love to buy an OSR game that does for the Tudor and Jacobean eras what Dark Albion and Lion & Dragon do for the Wars of the Roses and the Late Medieval period.
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Toadmaster

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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2018, 11:05:21 pm »
It is nominally set in 1500 England, based on the examples in the book which reference Dark Albion, but is setting light so moving it elsewhere in Europe would only take doing some research on the location.  If you wanted to play in England, it would be good to get Dark Albion as it will provide substantially more information on the time and place.

I've been making some notes to place it in Northern Europe and back dating it to the early middle ages (900-1100). Pundit has mentioned he has used it for an Arthurian campaign.


I've picked up all of the Pundit Presents relating to the game, a couple of new classes, some small adventures, magic items, some additional options for the magic in the game stuff like that. Certainly not required, but many provide some cool flavor material that can be far more fleshed out than if they had been included in the main book.


I am not a big fan of D&D, in fact this was the first D&D based game I've bought in probably 15 years, but I'm really liking what I see in L&D. There are lots of tips included to help a GM stay on track.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 11:08:12 pm by Toadmaster »

Razor 007

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Lion & Dragon: Seeking Advice For A First-Timer
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2018, 12:06:49 am »
I use my own setting, and take inspiration from Lion & Dragon to add medieval flavor.

I have created a settlement called Maginarium, which has sprung up around Lake Maginarius.  Even the common folk know a few Cantrips, Etc.  Magic on a small scale is very common, for some strange reason?  Perhaps this is caused by the waters of Lake Maginarius?

And another setting called The Great River Kingdom.

And another setting called Bluehaven.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 05:41:55 am by Razor 007 »
I need you to roll a perception check.....

Doc Sammy

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Lion & Dragon: Seeking Advice For A First-Timer
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2018, 04:39:33 pm »
I appreciate the advice, I successfully ordered the softcover of Lion & Dragon from Amazon last night and it should be here by Wednesday.

I'm very excited for this!
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nightlamp

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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2018, 09:19:02 pm »
For the Early Modern period, you could supplement L&D with setting stuff and gunpowder/firearms rules from elsewhere -- the AD&D2e historical supplement A Mighty Fortress is pretty extensive, or you could go for lighter OSR firearms rules such as those from Lamentations of the Flame Princess or Sabres & Witchery (a Swords & Wizardy variant).  If you want to do a little more conversion, Renaissance Deluxe is a d100 game that has a lot of mineable material.  I used it and A Mighty Fortress a lot when prepping my "Pike, Shotte, & Sorcerie" BoL game some years back.

Doc Sammy

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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 09:59:19 pm »
Quote from: nightlamp;1067549
For the Early Modern period, you could supplement L&D with setting stuff and gunpowder/firearms rules from elsewhere -- the AD&D2e historical supplement A Mighty Fortress is pretty extensive, or you could go for lighter OSR firearms rules such as those from Lamentations of the Flame Princess or Sabres & Witchery (a Swords & Wizardy variant).  If you want to do a little more conversion, Renaissance Deluxe is a d100 game that has a lot of mineable material.  I used it and A Mighty Fortress a lot when prepping my "Pike, Shotte, & Sorcerie" BoL game some years back.

I must admit, I do like the firearms rules for Sabres & Witchery so I might just port that into L&D.

Speaking of which, my copy of Lion & Dragon came in a day early and I'm skimming through it right now. I must say I am very impressed with what I have seen so far.
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2018, 09:08:53 pm »
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1067014

Also, I'm wanting to know if the game is specific to one particular nation or region of the European Middle Ages, or if it can be useful for any Medieval European campaign? I know Dark Albion is specific to England at the time of the War of the Roses, but I don't know the full details behind Lion & Dragon.


Unlike Dark Albion, L&D doesn't have a lot of explicit setting material (that's what Dark Albion is for). But it is set up with the idea of playing in England during the War of the Roses, so you could say the ideal place and date of a L&D game would be England in 1455. Indeed, some of the flavor text on things like the alchemical substances presume that it's after 1453, based on people it names and the presumption that Constantinople has already fallen to the Turks.
But the material in L&D is open enough that you could play anywhere in the late medieval/early-renaissance period, anywhere from around 1200 to somewhere a little after 1500. You could run it earlier, but would have to make some slight changes.

Quote
Next, I'm wondering what supplements (if any) would any of you recommend for L&D down the line?


If you want to play in the full-on War of the Roses era, then obviously Dark Albion. If not, you should seriously consider Cults of Chaos. It is basically a generator of evil groups (cults, covens, heresies, etc) with everything you need for playing tons of adventures.

Then, check out all the RPGPundit Presents series that are Medieval-Authentic. There's new magic expansions, adventures, and other interesting setting or gaming material.  Most of these are also smaller books, which are quite inexpensive.


Quote

Finally, I'd like to ask Pundit himself what he thinks of a "sequel" to Lion & Dragon/Dark Albion that covers the 16th and early 17th Century? I would love to buy an OSR game that does for the Tudor and Jacobean eras what Dark Albion and Lion & Dragon do for the Wars of the Roses and the Late Medieval period.


I could see maybe doing something about the Tudor era.  But I'd be more likely to go backward, rather than forward, because the Tudor period is really not medieval at all anymore, it's full-blown Renaissance. The medieval period of England pretty much dies with Richard Crookback at Bosworth.

So if I were to write another big sourcebook for L&D it would probably be one called "Deus Volt" and would be set in the crusades.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2018, 09:10:49 pm »
Quote from: Toadmaster;1067058
It is nominally set in 1500 England, based on the examples in the book which reference Dark Albion, but is setting light so moving it elsewhere in Europe would only take doing some research on the location.  If you wanted to play in England, it would be good to get Dark Albion as it will provide substantially more information on the time and place.

I've been making some notes to place it in Northern Europe and back dating it to the early middle ages (900-1100). Pundit has mentioned he has used it for an Arthurian campaign.


I've picked up all of the Pundit Presents relating to the game, a couple of new classes, some small adventures, magic items, some additional options for the magic in the game stuff like that. Certainly not required, but many provide some cool flavor material that can be far more fleshed out than if they had been included in the main book.


I am not a big fan of D&D, in fact this was the first D&D based game I've bought in probably 15 years, but I'm really liking what I see in L&D. There are lots of tips included to help a GM stay on track.


I am so glad to hear that! Thank you.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2018, 09:11:45 pm »
Quote from: Razor 007;1067075
I use my own setting, and take inspiration from Lion & Dragon to add medieval flavor.

I have created a settlement called Maginarium, which has sprung up around Lake Maginarius.  Even the common folk know a few Cantrips, Etc.  Magic on a small scale is very common, for some strange reason?  Perhaps this is caused by the waters of Lake Maginarius?

And another setting called The Great River Kingdom.

And another setting called Bluehaven.


Well yeah, you can totally do this. you could definitely use L&D to run a "Game of Thrones" campaign set on Westeros.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2018, 09:13:34 pm »
Quote from: nightlamp;1067549
For the Early Modern period, you could supplement L&D with setting stuff and gunpowder/firearms rules from elsewhere -- the AD&D2e historical supplement A Mighty Fortress is pretty extensive, or you could go for lighter OSR firearms rules such as those from Lamentations of the Flame Princess or Sabres & Witchery (a Swords & Wizardy variant).  If you want to do a little more conversion, Renaissance Deluxe is a d100 game that has a lot of mineable material.  I used it and A Mighty Fortress a lot when prepping my "Pike, Shotte, & Sorcerie" BoL game some years back.


Lion & Dragon has firearms rules. It even has rules for cannons.

Gunpowder was part of medieval warfare. It was still kind of rare in England at the start of the War of the Roses, but was extremely common by the end of it, 35 years later.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Aglondir

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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2018, 09:14:23 pm »
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1067014
I would love to buy an OSR game that does for the Tudor and Jacobean eras what Dark Albion and Lion & Dragon do for the Wars of the Roses and the Late Medieval period.

I think Sine Nomine is working (planning?) on an OSR Tudor game.

Happy Saturnalia!

Edit: Think he said that in a forum somewhere but I can't find it.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 09:22:23 pm by Aglondir »
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Doc Sammy

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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2018, 08:43:31 am »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1067801
Unlike Dark Albion, L&D doesn't have a lot of explicit setting material (that's what Dark Albion is for). But it is set up with the idea of playing in England during the War of the Roses, so you could say the ideal place and date of a L&D game would be England in 1455. Indeed, some of the flavor text on things like the alchemical substances presume that it's after 1453, based on people it names and the presumption that Constantinople has already fallen to the Turks.
But the material in L&D is open enough that you could play anywhere in the late medieval/early-renaissance period, anywhere from around 1200 to somewhere a little after 1500. You could run it earlier, but would have to make some slight changes.



If you want to play in the full-on War of the Roses era, then obviously Dark Albion. If not, you should seriously consider Cults of Chaos. It is basically a generator of evil groups (cults, covens, heresies, etc) with everything you need for playing tons of adventures.

Then, check out all the RPGPundit Presents series that are Medieval-Authentic. There's new magic expansions, adventures, and other interesting setting or gaming material.  Most of these are also smaller books, which are quite inexpensive.




I could see maybe doing something about the Tudor era.  But I'd be more likely to go backward, rather than forward, because the Tudor period is really not medieval at all anymore, it's full-blown Renaissance. The medieval period of England pretty much dies with Richard Crookback at Bosworth.

So if I were to write another big sourcebook for L&D it would probably be one called "Deus Volt" and would be set in the crusades.


Sounds understandable to me. I admit I do like the firearms rules in L&D, so I can easily use it for a Tudor game, but the more I read L&D, the more I want to go further back into the Medieval era.

I do look forward to your Crusades-themed materials and I myself am working on an Arthurian setting for Lion & Dragon called Dark Avalon that is much more in line with Le Morte D'Arthur and other medieval Arthurian works than with the more recent interpretations of King Arthur.

I made an open development thread on this site that will be updated regularly if you are interested.
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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 03:22:31 pm »
Quote from: Aglondir;1067805
I think Sine Nomine is working (planning?) on an OSR Tudor game.

Happy Saturnalia!

Edit: Think he said that in a forum somewhere but I can't find it.


Is he? He's always working on a lot of stuff.

That would be cool of course, but a Tudor era game wouldn't be a big jump. You can pretty much run it with Lion & Dragon. It would be the setting information that would be missing, more than anything.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Aglondir

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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 03:55:12 pm »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1068241
Is he? He's always working on a lot of stuff.

That would be cool of course, but a Tudor era game wouldn't be a big jump. You can pretty much run it with Lion & Dragon. It would be the setting information that would be missing, more than anything.

Found the quote:

Quote from: Sine Nomine
And at some points after that, I have tentative sketches for semi-historical games set in Marian England in 1555, Jiajing-era Ming China in the same year, and a less historical game set in the Mesoamerican New World in the same year. I expect it'll be years before any of those see the light, however.
I know it's hard to keep an open heart,
When even friends seem out to harm you.
But if you could heal a broken heart,
Wouldn't time be out to charm you?

- Axl Rose, "November Rain"

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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2018, 01:20:35 am »
Those all sound great.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.