I always thought the most fun pulp-y vehicle combat rules were in Road Hogs (the old TMNT supplement). Once you start moving into Car Wars territory, you've got to decide how important these chases are to the game. You could always use Gaslands or Junkierdrome if they are that important but don't want to spend three hours figuring out a combat.

Quote from: Brad on April 26, 2021, 01:04:29 PM
I always thought the most fun pulp-y vehicle combat rules were in Road Hogs (the old TMNT supplement). Once you start moving into Car Wars territory, you've got to decide how important these chases are to the game. You could always use Gaslands or Junkierdrome if they are that important but don't want to spend three hours figuring out a combat.

Well thanks, now I need to see if I can afford to buy it to check it out. Way I figure it it's likely some campaigns will have some vehicle chase/fight but I don't want Car Wars/Gaslands/etc level of complexity. I want it fun, fast and Pulp-y.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2021, 11:07:57 PM
LOL, sorta, kinda but not quite, I'm thinking that in a Pulp setting vehicle chases are innevitable, and so is firing into moving vehicles, so, besides the chase rules (that I still have to come with something I really like) I need to sort out the chances of bullets doing damage to both the vehicle and the ppl inside.

I'm not including military vehicles, I don't think those are really neccesary, but will include price and benefits of bullet proof armor for your vehicle.

Unless popular demand makes me include SOME military vehicles that is.

TSR's Indiana Jones RPG has some chase rules that might be worth looking at.
Star Frontiers has some pretty solid vehicular combat rules.
Been so long I have noooo idea now what, if any, rules TSR's MSH has for vehicles.

One to take a peek at, bemusingly enough, the Renegade Nuns on Wheels expansion for the Macho Women with Guns wargame.

As for military grade in pulp hero adventures. Actually that is often the go-to solution for a vehicle based villain. Armour the hell out of your vehicle or use some new invention to bulletproof it. Even the heroes do this. Sometimes to the point of being prof vs some military grade armaments.

Vehicle chases happened now and then but outside of serials high speed gunfights tended to be few in the actual books far as ever saw unless the hero or villain were more vehicle based than man-to-man. Or stitched out alot as need presented. The various iterations of the Rocket Man serial for example. Fist fights > gun fights > car fights > rocketship fights.

Quote from: Omega on April 26, 2021, 05:57:18 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2021, 11:07:57 PM
LOL, sorta, kinda but not quite, I'm thinking that in a Pulp setting vehicle chases are innevitable, and so is firing into moving vehicles, so, besides the chase rules (that I still have to come with something I really like) I need to sort out the chances of bullets doing damage to both the vehicle and the ppl inside.

I'm not including military vehicles, I don't think those are really neccesary, but will include price and benefits of bullet proof armor for your vehicle.

Unless popular demand makes me include SOME military vehicles that is.

TSR's Indiana Jones RPG has some chase rules that might be worth looking at.
Star Frontiers has some pretty solid vehicular combat rules.
Been so long I have noooo idea now what, if any, rules TSR's MSH has for vehicles.

One to take a peek at, bemusingly enough, the Renegade Nuns on Wheels expansion for the Macho Women with Guns wargame.

As for military grade in pulp hero adventures. Actually that is often the go-to solution for a vehicle based villain. Armour the hell out of your vehicle or use some new invention to bulletproof it. Even the heroes do this. Sometimes to the point of being prof vs some military grade armaments.

Vehicle chases happened now and then but outside of serials high speed gunfights tended to be few in the actual books far as ever saw unless the hero or villain were more vehicle based than man-to-man. Or stitched out alot as need presented. The various iterations of the Rocket Man serial for example. Fist fights > gun fights > car fights > rocketship fights.

The villain/heroes having an armored vehicle can be handled by the bulletproof rules, the vehicle having some sort of armament can be handled by the gadget/weird science rules.

I know vehicle chases/combat weren't that often, but I still think the rules should be there IF the GM wants to have that sort of thing in his game.

Okay, lets see.

Each vehicle as an AC, which is also determined by it's size because AC determines how easy it is to hit it.

Now, lets say we have a trailer, with AC = 13/6

You hit it on a roll of 13+ or 6-

It also has HP, speaking of our trailer lets say it has 70 HP, it has sustained some damage and it has only 4 HP left, so someone hits it with a Blackjack(1d4) and rolls 4 dmg. and now the trailer is "dead". IMHO this makes no sense.

How to solve it in an easy way? It was sugested to use hardness, not a bad idea, so unarmored land vehicles have a hardness of lets say 1d8, meaning anything with a dmg less than that makes only a scratch/dent but no real structural damage. Unless you managed to hit a tire/window...

How to solve this? Roll 1d6?

1 tires (Roll the dice that matches the vehicle: 1d2 Bycicles, motorcycles, 1d4 vehicles with only 2 axles 4 tires, 1d6 vehicles with 3 axles...)
2-5 body
6 windows (except if the vehicle lacks any of course.) Roll 1d6 to see if you hit any of the passengers.

Thoughts?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2021, 07:16:16 PM
Should the vehicle count as armor for the occupants? I mean it might be easier to hit a sedan than you but the bullet might be stoped or deviate and not hit you.

Depends on the round and the gun. For common rifles (e.g., AR/5.56 or AK/7.62, or common hunting cartridges like .270 Winchester, etc) the occupants of a vehicle would benefit from soft cover, but not hard cover. That is, the rounds will go right through the doors (and often out the other side). It's surprising how little protection a car door, etc. provides. Not sure about pistol rounds, though.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on April 26, 2021, 09:28:56 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2021, 07:16:16 PM
Should the vehicle count as armor for the occupants? I mean it might be easier to hit a sedan than you but the bullet might be stoped or deviate and not hit you.

Depends on the round and the gun. For common rifles (e.g., AR/5.56 or AK/7.62, or common hunting cartridges like .270 Winchester, etc) the occupants of a vehicle would benefit from soft cover, but not hard cover. That is, the rounds will go right through the doors (and often out the other side). It's surprising how little protection a car door, etc. provides. Not sure about pistol rounds, though.

You're talking modern weapons and modern cars, Im asking for vehicles from the 30's with the weapons of the time.

Ah, yes. Well, rifle cartridges from the 30s would be just as powerful. I guess the real question would be things like submachine guns (.45 Thompsons, for example).

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on April 26, 2021, 10:43:10 PM
Ah, yes. Well, rifle cartridges from the 30s would be just a powerful. I guess the real question would be things like submachine guns (.45 Thompsons, for example).

Correct, so far my best info is almost all handguns are useles (exceptions being the 38/44) and most rifles wouldn't stop the car except the BAR and one other similar to it unless they hit the tires, driver, radiator or a hose. Big game rifles would penetrate the body and probably hit the ppl.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2021, 06:40:27 PM
The villain/heroes having an armored vehicle can be handled by the bulletproof rules, the vehicle having some sort of armament can be handled by the gadget/weird science rules.

I know vehicle chases/combat weren't that often, but I still think the rules should be there IF the GM wants to have that sort of thing in his game.

Pretty sure thats how MSH handled vehicles as well. Much like how Star Frontiers did. The article for building vehicles and power armour are much the same in SF, and are the same in MSH.

Another worth looking at, appropriately enough, is TSR's Gangbusters RPG as it has vehicle combat rules for the general pulp era. And my Dragon Magazines are in storage so can not check out Crimefighters.

Ones have heard of but not yet had a chance to look at are Daredevils from FGU and Mercenaries, Spies, & Private Eyes from FB. I thought ICE had sone a Rolemaster Pulp Hero book but not seeing any info on it on a quick look. Might be fan made?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2021, 10:48:31 PM

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on April 26, 2021, 10:43:10 PM
Ah, yes. Well, rifle cartridges from the 30s would be just a powerful. I guess the real question would be things like submachine guns (.45 Thompsons, for example).

Correct, so far my best info is almost all handguns are useles (exceptions being the 38/44) and most rifles wouldn't stop the car except the BAR and one other similar to it unless they hit the tires, driver, radiator or a hose. Big game rifles would penetrate the body and probably hit the ppl.

The BAR doesn't fire anything all that different from the rifles of the day. The .308 or 8mm rifle rounds of those days packed a considerable punch.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2021, 06:58:11 PM
because AC determines how easy it is to hit it.

I thought AC represented a composite of how easy/hard it is to hit and damage something. IOW, a big target might have low AC, but a really resistant target might have high AC. Something like an armored car is both big and resistant, so...

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 27, 2021, 01:41:20 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2021, 06:58:11 PM
because AC determines how easy it is to hit it.

I thought AC represented a composite of how easy/hard it is to hit and damage something. IOW, a big target might have low AC, but a really resistant target might have high AC. Something like an armored car is both big and resistant, so...

That's correct, which is why in the bullet proofing rules there's an increase in AC for the vehicle, but when talking of not armored vehicles it's only their inherent "hardness" and their size.

And it still stands that without an extra rule a staff could deliver the "killing" blow to a trailer. And that's what I'm trying to fix in the post you extracted that quote from.

Lets extrapolate to an armored monster, lets postulate something with a hard shell a giant crab, does it make sense to have a staff deliver the killing blow? When it would not pierce the shell? Same for steel vehicles.

Quote from: Omega on April 27, 2021, 12:58:01 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2021, 06:40:27 PM
The villain/heroes having an armored vehicle can be handled by the bulletproof rules, the vehicle having some sort of armament can be handled by the gadget/weird science rules.

I know vehicle chases/combat weren't that often, but I still think the rules should be there IF the GM wants to have that sort of thing in his game.

Pretty sure thats how MSH handled vehicles as well. Much like how Star Frontiers did. The article for building vehicles and power armour are much the same in SF, and are the same in MSH.

Another worth looking at, appropriately enough, is TSR's Gangbusters RPG as it has vehicle combat rules for the general pulp era. And my Dragon Magazines are in storage so can not check out Crimefighters.

Ones have heard of but not yet had a chance to look at are Daredevils from FGU and Mercenaries, Spies, & Private Eyes from FB. I thought ICE had sone a Rolemaster Pulp Hero book but not seeing any info on it on a quick look. Might be fan made?

Gangbusters, M,S&P.E. I own, hadn't thought of checking for inspiration or to "borrow" from.

Crimefighters by David Cook?

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 27, 2021, 01:38:40 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2021, 10:48:31 PM

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on April 26, 2021, 10:43:10 PM
Ah, yes. Well, rifle cartridges from the 30s would be just a powerful. I guess the real question would be things like submachine guns (.45 Thompsons, for example).

Correct, so far my best info is almost all handguns are useles (exceptions being the 38/44) and most rifles wouldn't stop the car except the BAR and one other similar to it unless they hit the tires, driver, radiator or a hose. Big game rifles would penetrate the body and probably hit the ppl.

The BAR doesn't fire anything all that different from the rifles of the day. The .308 or 8mm rifle rounds of those days packed a considerable punch.

Different enough to crack an engine block.