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Author Topic: Lejendary Adventures Q&A  (Read 8203 times)

Lunamancer

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Lejendary Adventures Q&A
« Reply #105 on: September 27, 2019, 10:54:18 PM »
Quote from: Rithuan;1106019
I have a quick question. Where can I find the time (in ABC) that takes a regular melee attack? I found the bow and throwing weapons, but no melee. Might be that I'm tired

Last item on the list, "Weapon discharge or wielding to attack and defend: 1 ABC"

But keep in mind, Kobolds can attack twice per ABC. Avatars adjusted Speed 17+ may also opt to make 2 or 3 attacks depending on Weapons Ability. Certain extraordinary swords also increase number of attacks. Avatars with Unarmed Combat ability can get 3 hand strikes.

So the way I would read it is, engaging in melee takes 1 ABC. The number of attacks and/or counter attacks that involves can vary. The idea is you one thing each ABC--other than perhaps those things on the free action list. So you can move. You can attack. Not both. I'm pretty sure advancing hastily attack should be 22 1/2 feet rather than 21 1/2 feet. If you look at all the other movement actions, it seems to use increments of 2 1/2 feet, so if you're using a battle map, the scale would be a 2 1/2 foot grid. You can advance cautiously 3 squares, hastily 9 squares, move backwards 1 square, and sideways 2 squares in one ABC.

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Btw, I finally saw the Lejendary Adventure community on FB. I don't have a FB account, but I can see the post. Good times!

Yeah, there's some good stuff up there.

Rithuan

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« Reply #106 on: September 30, 2019, 07:20:28 AM »
Quote from: Lunamancer;1106312
Last item on the list, "Weapon discharge or wielding to attack and defend: 1 ABC"


Would you believe me that I couldn't find it in the LR4AP (player's handbook, for our still interested readers). Also, I'm sure is not mentioned in the essential rules. Thanks again Lunamancer.

I have two other players interested in a one shot. Better start the Character creation ASAP. Still takes me a lot of time.

I have another question, but more on the realm of house rules: do you know an alternative rule for improvised magic? I think my only true difficulty with this game is learning the activations (spells). That's true for any kind of game with spell list. - Thank you!

Lunamancer

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« Reply #107 on: October 03, 2019, 12:04:23 PM »
Quote from: Rithuan;1106748
Would you believe me that I couldn't find it in the LR4AP (player's handbook, for our still interested readers). Also, I'm sure is not mentioned in the essential rules. Thanks again Lunamancer.

Maybe some day we'll have a searchable text.

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I have two other players interested in a one shot. Better start the Character creation ASAP. Still takes me a lot of time.

I came up with some quick Avatar creation rules and posted them on the FB group.

For each base rating and ability, roll the indicated dice. Results less than the indicated minimum are treated as if the minimum were rolled. Results greater than the indicated maximum are treated as if the maximum were rolled.

Health = 6d20 (45 to 85)
Precision = 5d20 (30 to 65)
Speed = 2d20 half points (9 to 15)
1st Ability = 5d20 (50 to 80)
2nd Ability = 4d20 (40 to 60)
3rd Ability = 3d20 (30 to 45)
4th Ability = 2d20 (20 to 30)
5th Ability = 1d20 (10 to 15)

Pick equipment and go.


No adjusting BRs by Ability choice selection or any of that. It only works for human Avatars. If you want it to go real fast, stick with cookie-cutter Ordered Avatars. The resulting Avatars tend to be on par with ones generated by the book, but some will be stronger, some will be weaker. I originally created this for high death rate campaigns so a player can generate a new Avatar in under 10 minutes and jump right back into the game.

I've also been working on equipment packs to even speed up that part of it. I'm doing three packs for each order, so it's a bit of work. There is a little bit of flexibility within each pack. Here's Option A for Desperado Order Avatars.

half leather armor
long dagger
small crossbow
quarrel box, waist belt
20 quarrels
good clothing, colorful, dark, or light suit
hat
cloak, colorfull or light without hood
narrow leather belt
low hard-soled boots
2 leather belt pouches
cloth shoulder pouch with sling
large heavy sack with 10' leather thong neck wrap
30' rope
grapnel
candle lantern
tinder box
torch
file and lock pick in leather case
hammer and metal-cutting chisel
small jimmy bar
pry bar
small metal saw
small wood saw
jug of beer, 1 quart
bread and cheese for one person for four days
two-pound sausage
[low table pick]
[middle table pick]
[special table pick]


It's not a bad idea for new players to just have them play an ordered human Avatar by my quick creation method, especially for a one-shot, so that they get the hang of how the game works and what all the abilities do, then make their own once they have some basis of knowledge.

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I have another question, but more on the realm of house rules: do you know an alternative rule for improvised magic? I think my only true difficulty with this game is learning the activations (spells). That's true for any kind of game with spell list. - Thank you!

If you think about it, the Heart's Desire power is basically free form magic.

One of the tricky things is, because starting Avatars are already quite capable--roughly equivalent to 3rd to 6th level D&D characters rather than 1st level ones--activators tend to start with a lot of powers and it is a lot to learn. A few things you could do to make it more manageable: 1) There are lists of powers in the back of Beasts of Lejend, mainly meant for LMs needing to quickly pick powers for NACs, and just limit play to those powers for the time being. It's a much shorter, simpler list for you to learn. 2) You can forbid the Extraordinary Orders from the game initially, allowing Avatars to choose an Extraordinary Ability as their free 5th Ability. This will greatly limit the number of equipment picks they get for powers so you only have to learn the small number of powers players have picked.

As for a free-form system, you can of course just always do whatever you want. Where it gets tricky--and this is with any RPG, especially those that use free form magic--is gauging what is appropriate potency of the power.

For offensive powers, the main offsetting factors are going to be activation time vs range. Long activation times can be offset if they work at great ranges because the time it takes the enemy to get to the activator gives extra time to complete the application. Conversely, at short ranges, it's very difficult to get off long activations. Secondary off-setting factors would be Harm vs AEP cost. Assuming you've gotten range balanced with activation time, if you more harm is desired, it should require the investment of additional AEPs. A lot of Geourgy powers provide some good guidance here. Those variable grade ones, such as Earth Hammer, or Ice Spear, are good examples. You might also compare and contrast to Dazzling Dagger and Dazzling Dread from Enchantment. Shadow Bolts is a great example of a super fast acting, super potent offensive power that sucks up half your AEPs in one shot. I recommend ignoring the "update" in Essentials that lists Shadow Bolts as variable grade. Greater activation time for maxing it out hamstrings its usefulness.

For defensive or buffing powers, the main offsetting factors are going to be activation time vs duration. It's not a big deal if an activation takes 4 ABCs to complete if it lasts 6 hours. You can easily do it at the start of the adventure and re-up during rest periods. If the duration is short, though, such that it has to be activated in the heat of combat, it's going to be difficult to complete anything higher than Good grade. The potency of the buff or defense should be weighed against AEP cost. Something with a duration of 5 minutes to an hour is ideal for prepping for a single battle. But if the effect of the power is going to be in the order of 10-20 points of harm, or points of AP, for multiple party members, it should cost a good percentage of the activators AEPs. But duration also needs to be checked by potency. You don't want something with so long a duration that it will essentially be "always on" having massive unmitigated defensive of buffing capacity. The Personal Armor and Personal Shielding powers from Enchantment, and Grant Might, Grant Puissance from Theurgy gives you an idea of the upper bounds of effectiveness.

For everything else, I'm not sure what guidance I can offer, and I don't know that I can even point to good examples in the game. In the campaign where I'm a player, the first bunch of adventures my mage was able to effectively divide-and-conquer each enemy by using Conjured Closure to shut and lock doors. It doesn't take much time or AEPs. I thought it was over-powered. And Elephant of Surprise I hadn't been able to use at all. Not a once. I thought that was underpowered to the point of being useless. But now I haven't used conjured closure in months because we haven't had many indoor combats, and Elephant of Surprise I just used in back-to-back sessions. So much varies by circumstance, it's hard to say what's fair or not when going free form.

Rithuan

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« Reply #108 on: June 14, 2020, 11:45:57 PM »
Hello everyone. I'm back again. This time, I am preparing a campaign with Lejendary Adventure.

I have one question (probably for Lunamancer). What ability is used for throwing knives? Weapons, Archery, or Minstrelsy?

Thank you!

Lunamancer

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« Reply #109 on: June 15, 2020, 11:43:05 AM »
Quote from: Rithuan;1134158
Hello everyone. I'm back again. This time, I am preparing a campaign with Lejendary Adventure.

I have one question (probably for Lunamancer). What ability is used for throwing knives? Weapons, Archery, or Minstrelsy?

Thank you!

Weapons, enhanced by Minstrelsy. That is, each 10 points of Minstrelsy Ability possessed adds +1% to hit and +1 to harm.

I have considered allowing Avatars to use their full Minstrelsy Ability in lieu of Weapons Ability in cases where Minstrelsy Ability is higher, but I feel like Minstrelsy is already crammed full of tons of cool stuff--defensive bonus (even when armored), attack bonus for thrown weapons, parrying, and it helps with just about any sort of atheltic activity. Sometimes in adventures it's allowable as an alternative to Precision to escape something or maintain balance. And of course on top of that is all the actual minstrel stuff.

Rithuan

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« Reply #110 on: June 16, 2020, 10:04:30 AM »
Thanks for the reply, Lunamancer.
BTW, the post about quick avatar creation, is stellar.
I might consider creating a quick list of equipment. When an alfar character has 16 picks on the low list, it's just dull. I wasted more time in this step than any other step (trying to help my players, and avoiding spending picks in clothes and shoes)

Lunamancer

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« Reply #111 on: June 17, 2020, 12:56:56 PM »
One thing I've found helps to get through equipment picks faster, but is also a great way of organizing the character sheet so you can see more readily during play what your character has and can do, is to organize equipment according to the following categories:
Armaments (Weapons & Armor)
Clothing
Containers (Backpacks, sacks, pouches, chests, etc)
Herbs (including Poisons, Antidotes, Remedies, and Salves)
Lighting
Provisions
Tools
Transportation (horses, wagons, etc)
Wealth (coin of the realm)
Other (Miscellaneous Items and Extraordinary Objects)

These categories emerged as I was creating the different Equipment Packs. If you try to have at least one item in each category (save perhaps Extraordinary Objects for starting Avatars), you'll find equipment picks go pretty fast and seem too few rather than too many.

Rithuan

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« Reply #112 on: June 24, 2020, 08:32:30 AM »
That certainly helps. I'll consider doing something similar. Especially if you have to pick belts and shoes as part of your starting equipment. Who starts with gold pieces in his or her pocket, and no shoes?

I have another question. Have you ever converted monsters from D&D (any edition) to LA? I have seen some guidelines on how to do it with PC, but not monsters. As always, thank you!

Lunamancer

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« Reply #113 on: June 24, 2020, 03:45:33 PM »
Quote from: Rithuan;1135979
That certainly helps. I'll consider doing something similar. Especially if you have to pick belts and shoes as part of your starting equipment. Who starts with gold pieces in his or her pocket, and no shoes?

I have another question. Have you ever converted monsters from D&D (any edition) to LA? I have seen some guidelines on how to do it with PC, but not monsters. As always, thank you!

Yes, I have. And I've got a strong math background. I've plugged away at doing an accurate conversion system for 20 years now, revising and refining. What I've got now is pretty accurate.

Converting D&D hit points to LA Health
Health = 14 + 2 x hit points

Converting THAC0 to Precision
Precision = (26 - THAC0) x 5%

Speed roughly equals movement rate.

Converting D&D AC to LA Armor Protection
AP = 13 - AC

Converting D&D damage to LA Harm
The base weapon damage in D&D is d6, in LA it's d20. Since LA health totals are 2 times D&D hit point totals (setting aside the 14 point kicker), damage above and beyond d6 should be roughly doubled in LA.



If I were going to convert, say, the Stone Giant to LA, then, it would look something like this:
Health: 84 - 114, Precision: 70, Speed: 12
Attack: 1-20+14
Defense: 13 AP

Compare this to the LA Giant from Beasts of Lejend
Health: 101-120, Precision: 46-65, Speed: 6 attacking, 18 moving
Attack: 1-20+14
Defense: 9 AP


Here's how I would polish it up.

LA tends to make creatures tougher by giving them more AP rather than more health. Each point of difference in AP equates to about a 10% adjustment in Health. In the case of giants, though, it's almost the opposite. They're more beef than tank. So if I'm trying to split the difference to make the Stone Giant fit the LA mold a little better, I'd knock the AP down to 11, bump Health up to 101-140. (BTW, I got the range by plugging 9d8 into anydice.com, and going from average +/- standard deviation, then converting each of those numbers per my formula above to get the min and max of the range.)

I would also fit the movement rate to the distinction LA uses between attacking and moving. Since 12 is the average anyway, I'll just copy the LA giant movement scheme.

I did choose this example to simultaneously demonstrate how accurate this conversion system is. You can see the Stone Giant converted from D&D is a lot like the LA giant, just a little tougher (sometimes) in health, strikes with a better precision, and a couple extra points of armor.

Rithuan

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« Reply #114 on: July 26, 2020, 04:36:28 PM »
Enlightening as always, Luna. Thank you so much for sharing this. It helped me a lot to set a standard for monsters in my current campaign.

It's the first time work closely with the Beast of Lejend book (Monster Manual) to recreate a monster based on the description. Long story short, the setting "Hot Springs Island" comes with monster descriptions but no stats, so I'm converting the obvious (a Boar) and inventing the not that obvious (Obsidian Giant).

In this process, I re-reviewed the rules regarding armor and found a few surprises.

1.- Per LR4AP and Essential, additional damage as magical weapons or bonuses (and here, I imagine bonuses by skill as Chivalry, Physic, Tricks) bypass armor. This rule might be ignored considering the specific magical armor or monster protection. Is this correct? Do you use it that way?

So far, the magical armors on the Lejend Master Lore do not include any text regarding "ignoring the normal source of damage" they only grant additional protection. On the other hand, there are several monsters (ghosts and spirits) who ignore normal damage sources. Other duplicate protections against specific sources of damage (eg.: Slimes). What are your thoughts?

2.- Per Errata (2000) and FAQ, we also have this explanation:

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Where a normal attack is against Extraordinary armor/protection of preternatural sort, only preternatural or supernatural harm will bypass such armor.
Where a normal attack is against Extraordinary armor/protection of supernatural sort, only supernatural harm will bypass such armor.

In this revised version, does this mean that skill bonuses do not surpass armor protection*?
*: unless we use the bypass armor rule :-/

Thank you!

Lunamancer

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« Reply #115 on: July 28, 2020, 07:48:24 PM »
Quote from: Rithuan;1141855
Enlightening as always, Luna. Thank you so much for sharing this. It helped me a lot to set a standard for monsters in my current campaign.

It's the first time work closely with the Beast of Lejend book (Monster Manual) to recreate a monster based on the description. Long story short, the setting "Hot Springs Island" comes with monster descriptions but no stats, so I'm converting the obvious (a Boar) and inventing the not that obvious (Obsidian Giant).

In this process, I re-reviewed the rules regarding armor and found a few surprises.

Quote
1.- Per LR4AP and Essential, additional damage as magical weapons or bonuses (and here, I imagine bonuses by skill as Chivalry, Physic, Tricks) bypass armor. This rule might be ignored considering the specific magical armor or monster protection. Is this correct? Do you use it that way?

For Avatars, only extraordinary harm ignores armor--preternatural, supernatural, elemental, unnatural (nether), VT, and so on. Physique bonus, as well as all harm bonus due to skill, is subject to armor protection.
For beasts--particularly strong animals and monsters--the bonus harm does bypass armor.
So if you're being gored by a rhino, it will cause 13-20 harm (d20 with a minimum of 13) that can be blocked by armor, +1-10 that armor will not protect against. So say I roll 14 and 6 on the harm dice. I would announce, "14 harm, plus 6 that ignores armor."
For monsters defense, something like animal hide which is literally all-over the animal without any gaps to exploit, you might rule this natural armor will not be bypassed (it's usually a very low number like 2-4 or so).


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So far, the magical armors on the Lejend Master Lore do not include any text regarding "ignoring the normal source of damage" they only grant additional protection. On the other hand, there are several monsters (ghosts and spirits) who ignore normal damage sources. Other duplicate protections against specific sources of damage (eg.: Slimes). What are your thoughts?

Yes, extraordinary armor simply adds to armor protection. However, in the appropriate cases, they may also provide a defense against harm that would otherwise ignore armor. The harm bonus on a supernatural weapon, for instance, can be blocked by supernatural armor. Elemental harm, such as a fiery bolt, which normally ignores armor, will be absorbed by a Flame Byrnie.

Ghosts & Spritis are a real problem in LA. Most parties, especially if you're accustomed to other D&D and most other RPGs, are not going to have any means to defeat spirits. Extraordinary harm can work. Extraordinary activations can work, too. Some powers do specifically bar spirits or negate their attacks. When you get a little wiser about it, players are careful to select powers such as Sacred Precincts, Spirit Low, Free Will Feeding (this is a really cool Psychogenic power that costs 5 AEPs to activate, but you leach 1-12 Health/Free Will from spirits, adding that number to your AEPs, so on average, on net, you will actually gain AEPs!!),  Elemental Protection, and of course Ecclesiastics have several such powers. Two Extraordinary weapons are highly effective against spirits--Demon Darkwhip and the Unhallowed Bane Axe.

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2.- Per Errata (2000) and FAQ, we also have this explanation:

In this revised version, does this mean that skill bonuses do not surpass armor protection*?
*: unless we use the bypass armor rule :-/

This bit of errata is really good for simplifying things. I still prefer to allow 10% of ordinary harm to bypass Preternatural Armor on an armor bypassing hit, and 10% of Preternatural Harm to bypass Supernatural armor on a bypassing hit. It's never going to amount to more than a point or 2. It's like an extension of the strong hit rule.

Rithuan

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Re: Lejendary Adventures Q&A
« Reply #116 on: September 03, 2020, 02:25:45 PM »
Thanks again for your reply! Sorry, it took me this long to thank you. Not enough time for gaming these days.
I have a question, but in this case, it's more about preference. How do you track encumbrance or equipment carried in your games? Since most items don't have weight, and there is no hard rule for this in the game (except a mention on Physique ability)

I'm planing on using a slot base inventory, where excess of weights reduce speed for combat and movement (similar to armors). I'm interesting on hear your thoughts on this.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 01:35:36 PM by Rithuan »

Lunamancer

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Re: Lejendary Adventures Q&A
« Reply #117 on: September 06, 2020, 11:06:54 AM »
Big picture? Same way I handle encumbrance in D&D. Which takes a bit of explaining.


My main rule is that you have to be able to explain how you're carrying everything in order to be able to carry it all. When it comes to players outfitting their Avatars for adventure, I find they rarely want to resort to strained explanations for justifying carrying a ton of stuff. Because they know it can come back to bite them if they ever need to grab an item directly during the adventure. Because players tend to remain reasonable like this, if I go add up the D&D encumbrance of what they're carrying, I find rarely if ever will it cause them to move into the next encumbrance category. In other words, I can literally ignore encumbrance and still be playing identically to running it by the book.

And so my conclusion is that the main purpose of encumbrance is for that return journey when adventurers are laden with treasure. It's not just a limit on how much treasure they can haul out, but it also burdens them to present a new challenge on the return journey, even when they're retreading the exact same ground they've just covered.


So if I'm doing LA, I'm mainly concerned with the weight of the treasure, not the weight of their gear. And of course the value of treasure in LA is already linked to the metal weight. For gear normally carried, I would just assume Avatars are carrying the equivalent of a 20-pound pack for their normal equipment, resulting in 10% Speed loss. (As a house rule, I like to tweak this, making it 1 point of Speed loss for each 10% of bodyweight in equipment carried and assume the standard pack is 10% of the Avatar's body weight). This penalty is negated if the Avatar has Physique Ability of 20 or higher.

Rithuan

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Re: Lejendary Adventures Q&A
« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2020, 09:39:37 PM »

Hi Lunamancer,


Thank's for your reply. Interesting way to deal with it. I love the idea of counting it when it matters: when you need to drag treasure... or a fallen friend.
 
I have a question: How do you deal with armor in general? 20 pounds of equipment might be spent already (or about to be spent) depending on the armor type.


Speaking of armors, is my idea or the numbers for magic armors is wrong? (LML p47) For example, the Leather armor of equal quality of enchantment is equal or worst than cloth armor. Supposedly, cheaper to buy, sell, or enchant.


cloth armor (full) is 6 to 7 armor (1 speed)
Leather armor (full) 8 to 9 armor (1 to 1.5 speed)


cloth armor (full) preternatural [Moderate]: 10 armor and (0.5 speed)
Leather armor (full) preternatural [Moderate]:  10 armor and (0.5 speed)


cloth armor (full) supernatural [Very Good]: 14 armor and (0.5 speed)
Leather armor (full) supernatural [Very Good]: 12 armor and (0.5 speed)


Lunamancer

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Re: Lejendary Adventures Q&A
« Reply #119 on: September 10, 2020, 12:29:20 AM »

Hi Lunamancer,


Thank's for your reply. Interesting way to deal with it. I love the idea of counting it when it matters: when you need to drag treasure... or a fallen friend.


I tend to 80/20 most things. 80% of anything that will come up in the game can probably be fully (BtB) handled by just using 20% of the rules. The other 80% of the rules are for those 20% edge cases.

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I have a question: How do you deal with armor in general? 20 pounds of equipment might be spent already (or about to be spent) depending on the armor type.


I don't count armor worn at all. There is already a Speed penalty associated with armor. In AD&D 1E, a foot note way in the back of the DMG in a section on encumbrance lists a set of ordinary clothing as 30 cn encumbrance, unless they're the set being worn, then they have 0 encumbrance. So I apply the same idea here. Again, armors already have a speed penalty, I see no reason to double-dip on this.




Quote
Speaking of armors, is my idea or the numbers for magic armors is wrong? (LML p47) For example, the Leather armor of equal quality of enchantment is equal or worst than cloth armor. Supposedly, cheaper to buy, sell, or enchant.


I tend to think of enchanted cloth armors, especially full cloth, like they're magical Enchanters' robes. But if the discrepancy doesn't square with you, just swap the AP values. It wouldn't be the only example of some of the specs seeming off on extraordinary items. For another example, check out LML pg 50-51, pay particular attention to the Banderlog King Armbands versus the Bracers of Titanic Physique. Both confer 100 Physique Ability. But the Banderlog King Armbands further grant brachiating ability. Yet the bracers are listed as a higher grade item. My brother for his campaign has simply ruled the Banderlog King Armbands only confer 50 Physique Ability.

The way I keep extraordinary leather armor competitive with extraordinary cloth armor is, for purposes of harm to the armor, I allow fire harm to harm cloth armor more easily than leather. That is, fire harm of equal type or better (in terms of natural, preternatural, or supernatural) will accrue harm to the armor in addition to its wearer. Whereas leather is only affected by fire harm of at least one grade higher (magical fire or supernatural affects ordinary leather armor, only supernatural fire affects preternatural leather, and supernatural leather is unaffected by fire. Note in no case does the armor reduce fire harm to the Avatar unless specifically proof against fire (such as the Flame Byrnie). This consideration is only for tracking harm done to armor (and it is difficult to harm extraordinary armors in any event).