Quote from: Marleycat;774603Meh, at-wills are in 3e style games and the healing rates/rest cycles are among the easiest to adjust in 5e. You want 4e? Make short rests 5 minutes and add in a grid based tactical mod. You want 3e? Just make cantrips level + mod per day or similar and remove HD healing.

...and if I want F.A.T.A.L. I'll add anal circumference tables.

Quote from: CRKrueger;774611...and if I want F.A.T.A.L. I'll add anal circumference tables.

You forgot to quote the last part of my post. I do understand why given it invalidates your whining but I'll survive.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;774589I strongly suspect this exact factor is going to peel away a lot of Pathfinder players as well.

I'm probably in the Pathfinder Refugee category. For me, it's a combination of several things (including combat speed), that starts causing problems around level 9 and gets worse as it goes on.

If 5e doesn't work out for us, I'll probably go back to PF, cap it at level 10 and call it a day.

Quote from: Marleycat;774616You forgot to quote the last part of my post. I do understand why given it invalidates your whining but I'll survive.

"Whining" of course being anything other then 100% madass support for 5e.  Anything else than Full.Fan isn't worth discussing at all because...it can be changed, right?  

BTW, since 99% of any of your arguments lately are just "Stop saying stuff I don't like about something I like.", you'll never invalidate my "whining".

Quote from: CRKrueger;774678"Whining" of course being anything other then 100% madass support for 5e.  Anything else than Full.Fan isn't worth discussing at all because...it can be changed, right?  

BTW, since 99% of any of your arguments lately are just "Stop saying stuff I don't like about something I like.", you'll never invalidate my "whining".

No I always say go ahead but I wouldn't because if I went as far as you constantly say you will I would just play something like Labyrinth Lord or ACKS and not waste my money. It's like watching Emirkol or Ruin Explorer. Why work so hard to make 5e into 1e in every way when you already have that game?

Quote from: Marleycat;774680Why work so hard to make 5e into 1e in every way when you already have that game?

Truth.

Quote from: Marleycat;774680No I always say go ahead but I wouldn't because if I went as far as you constantly say you will I would just play something like Labyrinth Lord or ACKS and not waste my money. It's like watching Emirkol or Ruin Explorer. Why work so hard to make 5e into 1e in every way when you already have that game?

I'm not working hard at anything, I'm merely commenting on a game and stating my opinions on things WotC could improve or might have done better.

You're the one spending all the effort hunting down every post to make sure you check every possible dissenting opinion there is here.

Quote from: Raven;774682Truth.

If that was in any way, shape or form what I was doing, yeah, but since it isn't, umm...nope.

Just because we don't care about your opinion doesn't mean we don't understand.

Quote from: JonWake;774696Just because we don't care about your opinion doesn't mean we don't understand.

And where did I say you didn't understand my opinion?  The care that gets put in though to decry them is rather obvious in certain cases though.

Quote from: JonWake;774696Just because we don't care about your opinion doesn't mean we don't understand.

I'm thinking of sigging that.

JG

Quote from: CRKrueger;774596They rolled back the baked-in MMOGification, sure, but all the systems will get put back in at some point, just optional, that's why Lite.

It's possible, but to be honest I am not seeing much demand. And at this point you would pretty much have the rewrite every spell in the game to do it.

QuoteThe at-wills and healing systems alone mark it as infinitely more 4e then 3e.

As has been pointed out, At Will Cantrips are now a pretty solidified feature of Pathfinder, so they don't really remind me of 4e. Mainly because in the main 4e had a completely different power list. So you cant cast 'Shocking Grasp' as an At Will in 4e, because shocking Grasp doesn't exist at all in 4e.

The healing rate is odd. It's basically 1/4 f the rate of 4e. In that you can only rest once every 24 hours rather than 12 hours and you only get back half your Hit Dice rather than all your Hit Dice. While I think it is like 4e, its pretty much the only bit of the game that is like 4e.

Weird graphic that sums up stuff.*




*and may or may not be accurate depending on how you define the terms used.

I like that graph.

Allthough 2e bards can be awesome!

Nice graphic, but I feel like attributes in 5E improve a LOT. Of course, I didn't play much 3E, so I can't compare. I just know every character in 5E is gonna end up with at least one 20 in a stat, by RAW. I don't know how things ended up in 3E.