[Legends & Lore] Mearls on feats

Blacky the Blackball · July 31, 2014, 07:41:39 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr;774161Yeah, that's just dumb. Especially since Durable merely sets the minimum baseline of the roll equal to 2x CON mod, and d6 is a wizards Hit Die. The only CON mod needed is +3 to max out a d6. CON 16 is all you need, then you get 9 HP per HD heal. Anything beyond that sloughs off; 20 CON?, that's a waste of 4 points that could've sat on INT.

They are bad at English and Math apparently.

It depends how you interpret the wording of the feat.

You seem to be suggesting that the minimum is calculated before you then add your ability bonus. I.e. you recover min(1d6, 6) +3.

I interpreted the wording to mean that the minimum is including your ability bonus. I.e you recover min(1d6+3, 6).

So by my interpretation to max out the d6 every time you'd need to have a CON of 22, which isn't possible by simple stat gains.

Saplatt · July 31, 2014, 07:51:28 PM

Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;774167You seem to be suggesting that the minimum is calculated before you then add your ability bonus. I.e. you recover min(1d6, 6) +3.

FWIW, that's the way I would read it. Otherwise, the clause "from the roll" seems superfluous.

Will · July 31, 2014, 07:52:29 PM

Quote from: Necrozius;774166There may indeed be a time and place (or even fun to be had) with number crunching and statistical analysis of probability of game rules, but to me that's "unweaving the rainbow" and sucking all the fun out of the game.

To each their own, etc, but when someone tells me "no, don't pick THAT ability, it only gives you an average of 1.2 more HP/dps/brownie points per level" I want to throw dice at them.

Amen. I want the ability to have some flavorful choices that mechanically matter, maybe pay enough attention not to make any weird mistakes, but not have to expend much effort to not end up going 'well, fuck, my character is useless.'

Larsdangly · July 31, 2014, 08:01:31 PM

The irony about the parsing of odds and numbers in 4E and what I've seen of 5E is that these games are actually statistically very flat; everyone has lots of HP; everyone has some kind of attack that does similar damage; everyone has at least a path to a decent AC. This was really not true in 1E. Many characters that were excellent at combat had to get by on wits alone in other circumstances, and visa versa.

Opaopajr · July 31, 2014, 08:02:23 PM

That interpretation would make the feat ignorable, just multi-class dip into Fighter already. 1d10+lvl HP repeatable blows that completely out of the water.

Opaopajr · July 31, 2014, 08:13:43 PM

Quote from: Saplatt;774173FWIW, that's the way I would read it. Otherwise, the clause "from the roll" seems superfluous.

I'm used to CCGs where that is shorthand for the die roll specifically, instead of equation roll (i.e. attack roll, saving throw roll, etc.). However, yes you can interpret it in that weaker way. I'd see no reason not to, besides the immortal Cult of the Balance. I myself am still working on ideas to hammer down the power level of this edition.

I am just fascinated how much WotC reads closer and closer to CCG vernacular over the years. You could be right. But I'd expect much sturm und drang to clarify that into something more CCG appropriate power level.

RPGPundit · August 01, 2014, 02:58:31 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;770849I'm hopeful that 3rd times a charm for Feats. I love the concept, but the implementation has always been rough. Of course, feats and backgrounds are hellacious issues for balance long term and they're going to be the whining-ground for min/maxers.

The good news is that if you don't like them, they're not part of the Core anyways.

dbm · August 01, 2014, 03:08:36 AM

Quote from: Will;774133I'm a huge fan of a lot of what 3e _tried_. Just, with time, not such a huge fan of how they did most things. (I'm generally thrilled at their shift to a more unified approach, and that has progressed through the systems afterwards and many OSR things)

I contend one could take M&M or something to build a fully modular character creation system where you can easily slap a bunch of balanced units together to create characters without having to actually dig into point buy system.

Have you tried True20? That is exactly what it is designed to do.

Omega · August 01, 2014, 03:13:07 AM

Quote from: Marleycat;774164Or how about DEX? Isn't better not to get hit in the first place?

No no no! You should be THINKING about not getting hit! Put those points into Intelligence where they belong! Yeesh, kids these days... :rolleyes:

Will · August 01, 2014, 10:02:38 AM

Quote from: dbm;774296Have you tried True20? That is exactly what it is designed to do.

I thought True20 was more like 'here are three genericed classes you can mix freely.'

I was thinking smaller chunks.

(Also, I wasn't thrilled with T20's magic system, but that's separate)

Marleycat · August 01, 2014, 12:05:22 PM

What's the big deal about having a possible 10 point floor for hitpoint recovery if you max CON? I'd say that is pretty decent deal.

dbm · August 01, 2014, 01:06:29 PM

Quote from: Will;774354I thought True20 was more like 'here are three genericed classes you can mix freely.'

I was thinking smaller chunks.

(Also, I wasn't thrilled with T20's magic system, but that's separate)

It is, so I guess you've tried it and didn't like it - no worries

crkrueger · August 01, 2014, 04:09:10 PM

Quote from: The Butcher;774138I still think 5e is 3e Lite.

5e is 4e lite. Powers, Healing etc, far closer to 4e.

Assume you wanted to go back in time and make 4e without the mandate of changing the system so much it couldn't be reverse-engineered under the OGL and follow a Basic/Optional model.

That's 5e. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Larsdangly · August 01, 2014, 04:14:00 PM

Yeah, that sounds pretty accurate. I'm not a 4E expert, but I own the starter set and played a couple of sessions. If all you know of it is the simplest parts, the lowest levels, and the way it started out, you can see a lot of it still in 5E. Just without the ornate super-structure that grew from that seed. Perhaps 5E is like 4E with faster combat and a bit of 1E/2E aesthetic and overall structure. Of course frequent HP recovery is the major 4E innovation that changes game play greatly and survived into 5E. I can deal with it, in principle, but will have to see if I can stick to it.

Sacrosanct · August 01, 2014, 04:17:17 PM

It's not even 4e lite. For one, you don't need minis or maps to play at all, and there's not really any tactical stuff in the basic set. It does have vancian-esque magic, and does not have encounter powers

It's not 3e lite, or 2e lite or 1e light. It's it's own game, with inspirations from each previous edition before it pretty darn equally.